278 Has AI Killed SEO? - Greg Bray and Kevin Weitzel Jul 23 2025

Greg Bray: [00:00:00] Hello, everybody, and welcome to today's episode of The Home Builder Digital Marketing Podcast. I'm Greg Bray with Blue Tangerine.

Kevin Weitzel: And I'm Kevin Weitzel with OutHouse.

Greg Bray: And we are excited today to be talking to each other.

Kevin Weitzel: We are. I'm going to just step on you here a little bit, Greg, and say that today's guest is none other than Greg Bray with Blue Tangerine.

Greg Bray: Thank you, Kevin. It's a pleasure to be with you today.

Kevin Weitzel: Absolutely. Alright, so obviously everybody knows what Blue Tangerine is. You've been a repeated guest on here. You've been on a couple of times, but just [00:01:00] give everybody just a quick synopsis of what Blue Tangerine offers as services for any of our new listeners.

Greg Bray: So, we are a digital marketing and website development agency. We help builders create sales-generating websites. So, Kevin, the goal is to give them website design, development, hosting support, maintenance services, and then all of the tools that drive traffic to the site. Things like search engine optimization, paid ads on Google and Microsoft Bing, getting into things like email marketing, social media. And then, programmatic, like geofencing, and then tying it all together with the strategy and analytics services that help them understand where's the traffic coming from, what's converting, what's not, how do we adjust and improve so that we can maximize the return on those marketing activities.

Kevin Weitzel: Freakishly fantastic, Greg. And I'm actually glad that you didn't go too much into today's topic because I heard you mention a few things we're going to be talking about. But for our regular everyday listeners or those loyal listeners that listen every week, they know that this is the time when we ask about an interesting factoid.

However, since I already know that you're [00:02:00] really into basketball, you're really into family, you're really into the work and totally nerding out in the industry that we're in, I'm going to ask you this: Outside of the United States, you can travel anywhere in the world, where would that place be? You can fly tomorrow.

Greg Bray: Somewhere that I've never been before, or just anywhere?

Kevin Weitzel: Anywhere. Even if you've been there, someplace you'd like to try out or someplace you've seen in National Geographic, and you're like, wow, I need to go see giraffes, you know, whatever it would be.

Greg Bray: I've got several places on the bucket list. I'd love to go back to Germany. I lived in Germany for a little while. And I know my wife and I would really like to do that, so I'm going to go with that one. We'd like to go back and tour around Germany a bit, see some of the fun stuff there.

Kevin Weitzel: All right. Well, if you were going to be searching for things to do in Germany, you'd want to make sure that whatever you were searching for was optimized to be able to be found on the internet, correct?

Greg Bray: Absolutely, we would start that trip planning, definitely with some Google searches.

Kevin Weitzel: Well, then, that kind of brings us to today's topic. We're going to be talking about SEO and the impact that AI is having on that specific subject matter. So, could you do me a favor and [00:03:00] kind of define traditional SEO and why and how has it worked so long as it has?

Greg Bray: Yeah. So, you know, for those of you who know how to spell SEO right, it's search engine optimization. It's been this idea of what are the activities you can do to help your website show up on that search results page when somebody is typing something into Google or some other search engine. For today's purposes, we're going to focus primarily on Google because it's still the big one out there.

Kevin Weitzel: The gorilla. Yeah.

Greg Bray: Most of the market share, but a lot of the principles apply regardless of which search engine you're talking about. It's something that's been going on ever since search engines were a thing back in the late nineties, early two thousands, when really this internet thing kind of took off. And, of course, we all want to have our site be at the top because we know that people don't go very deep into page two, page three, page four. It's pretty much if you're not on page one of those search results, they don't usually find you. And so, SEO has been a variety of activities that [00:04:00] are all aimed at that goal of how do we get Google to put us there at the top of that list.

Kevin Weitzel: So, new acronyms that people might not be comfortable with or might not be aware of is GEO and AEO. What are those, and how are they different from SEO?

Greg Bray: Yeah. So, obviously, Kevin, over the last couple of years, there's been this huge upheaval coming from these AI tools. The biggest one being ChatGPT. There's a lot of others out there as well, but that seems to be the one that most people are kind of becoming familiar with. It hasn't been that long ago that it was brand new, and yet now it feels like it's been around forever in some ways. But it is changing the landscape of SEO and what we do. And so, there's some other terms that have popped up. You mentioned a couple of the big ones.

GEO is generative engine optimization as opposed to search engine optimization. So, generative being these AI search engines that are showing up within the traditional [00:05:00] search results. I'm sure that you've recently done a search on Google, and above the normal traditional results, there's now this little AI answer that kind of pops up at the top of those search results where Google is trying to answer the question that you've asked for you. That is kind of the area that we're targeting with that GEO concept. How do we show up there?

There's also some other places. Like, there's tool called Perplexity that's doing similar types of question-and-answer kind of results and doing some things along the lines that Google is. So, again, we're trying to show up there. You also mentioned AEO. So, this is the AI engine optimization. Kind of similar. There's definitely a lot of overlap here. I'm not sure who the people are that get to define buzzwords, like what makes you a buzzword definer person or not, you know? And so, I think over time we may see some of these things come together into kind of one overall title, if you will, or heading.

But when people are trying to [00:06:00] differentiate AEO or that AI engine optimization, this is about, how do I show up when somebody's asking about my company or the services that I offer, like within ChatGPT. They're doing some type of research, some type of a question, and being able to say, okay, I want my company to show up here. This is really a growing opportunity, a growing thing, because more and more people are, of course, moving to asking questions to these tools because of the way that they're able to pull together different pieces of information in those answers.

So, again, GEO, generative engine optimization. AI engine optimization, AEO. Very similar, some fine-tuning nuances. Because of what we do, or the target is different from the traditional Google search results, the industry kind of feels like we need to call it something different. We can't just call it SEO, even though you might be able to bundle it all under SEO at some point in the future. We'll see how the buzzword breaks out over time.

Kevin Weitzel: This is a side note, but on ChatGPT [00:07:00] and Claude, you can put in a persona, and it kind of gives you back answers in a certain persona with a certain language. Can you do that with like Gemini? Can I get it to do something like that, or is that not a possibility yet?

Greg Bray: You know, I am not an expert on the persona side, Kevin. I'm going to admit that. I know that stuff's coming, but you make an interesting point from kind of where do we need to be from a business standpoint. Because there's using these tools where we're trying to generate content, and things like Gemini to generate content, to be able to do it in a certain voice, to train it, to understand our industry, things like that. That's a little bit different from the focus of what I'm kind of trying to get at today.

Where today is, I want to be part of the answer to everybody else's questions. You know, when somebody says, Hey, I'm looking for four bedroom homes in the Atlanta area that have this particular feature and have a basement and can have a two car garage, but I want to make sure it's wide enough for my truck to fit in it, and [00:08:00] you can start to have these kinds of in depth questions. If I'm the builder that offers that, I want my stuff to show up in that answer, and I want to be sure as somebody is asking those types of research questions, that I'm part of the conversation and not just left out in the cold.

Kevin Weitzel: So, that's pretty much the biggest change on the big scheme of things, the biggest change is that when you're using, you know, ChatGPT, Perplexity, Gemini and stuff, you can get more granular on those bits of information, but only if you have those bits of information on your website, correct?

Greg Bray: Yeah. Absolutely. I mean, that's where these engines are getting the content, right? They're getting the content from your website. So, this idea that SEO is dead, which I've heard people talk about. I don't know if we have time to get into all the hyperbole about some of this stuff, but the idea of the need to create content for the website is increasing. It's not decreasing. We need to be giving more content to be able to drive [00:09:00] these answers and be able to give it in a way that is much more clear for the chat engines to be able to process and understand. Yes, they're amazing at how well they understand natural language, but if we can help connect some of those dots, there's just going to be even better at showing up and being part of the answer.

Let me give you an example, Kevin, if that's all right. Our family is planning a deep-sea fishing trip while we're going to be on a vacation in Florida. Haven't done that before. We're not familiar with the area where we're going to be, the providers. I started out doing the traditional Google search, getting, you know, a few things listed, and I was like, you know what, wait a minute. Why am I doing all this work? Why am I doing all this comparison? Let me have ChatGPT do the comparison.

So, I said I'm looking for a trip that's available on this date. I'm looking for this many people. I'm looking for all these characteristics of it. I want to make sure that I'm dealing with someone that has at least a four and a half star review level. I [00:10:00] want to make sure that they've got a professional-looking website is one of the requirements I gave them to help me measure. I asked ChatGPT to go give me the top four options based on all these criteria that I got, and I got back this nice little chart. It compared them, everything else. I feel really bad for the guy who might be the perfect charter or fishing boat, but his website's not available to ChatGPT to even be included in the conversation.

Kevin Weitzel: You're making my point for me. So, let me ask you this question, because this is actually very important, because there are builders that apply to this same rule here. You have your various charter companies out there, and where are you going? Caribbean or?

Greg Bray: The Gulf, Tampa area in Florida.

Kevin Weitzel: Okay. All right, so down the Gulf. You've got these large outfits, you know, big corporations that go in there and they have these 20, 30, 40 boat fleets that can service you and, you know, supply liverboard or all these other different kinds of amenities you can have. Then you got Captain Carl. Captain Carl doesn't actually have a formal website. He just has some mentions on Facebook. Is there [00:11:00] anything that Captain Carl can do?

The beauty of the internet is that it kind of levels the playing field. You can spend all the money you want, but as long as you have a presence, you can still be competitive against those big players. What can Captain Carl do, or Carl the builder do, to compete against those large players that are out there, that have bigger marketing budgets, that spend tons of money on SEO? What can they do with a micro budget to be recognized in AI, to be recognized on Google search?

Greg Bray: Yeah. Well, and that's the million-dollar question, right? We're still figuring all that out. It's still in a very early experimental stage. But we do know some of those things are the same things you need to be doing just to show up in Google because it's about having the same kind of content available and having it tagged and flagged and all the different things that go into that to be able to show up. As well as taking advantage of those other non-website locations like your Google Business profile, your Microsoft Bing, a local business profile and things like that, that help these search engines [00:12:00] understand your company and who you are and what you offer is still going to be even more critical now, as far as surfacing and showing up. And then, it's about collecting things like the reviews and making sure you've got those.

Social media is a little bit of a different animal in this context because it's not always clear how far behind the login these tools can get to be able to read, like just a Facebook page or things like that, compared to the publicly available information. I'm sure that there will be a time and place where Facebook's ready to sell all that content to whichever engine wants it and is willing to pay for it. But the most important area to focus on right now is that publicly available content across these sources to let people be able to scan it and embed it.

Kevin Weitzel: Well, let me shift here then, because when we're talking about who we typically are speaking to on our podcast, is to marketers, you know, decision makers on the marketing side, to people that are marketing savvy. Let me ask you this. If you had the factor of SEO [00:13:00] and AI and everything else with these shifts that are happening with more people searching on AI and the Claudes of the world, is this affecting the amount of website traffic that a builder would see, is it higher quality because it is more granular, and is there less of it?

Greg Bray: Absolutely, Kevin. You are spot on with that. What we are seeing is a decrease in overall traffic, and there's been a lot of reports about that, but the quality of the traffic that does come to the website does seem to convert higher because by the time they get there, they're later in the process. Because what's happening is they're doing the research piece in these chat AI tools and not coming to the website to do the research themselves.

And think about it, just even the Google AI summary at the top of the results. How many times have you gotten the information you were looking for from that summary without having to click? They're called zero-click searches, where they don't actually send traffic to the end website that provided the information. Even when that website's [00:14:00] referenced, if I got what I needed, I'm moving on. I'm not just going to go click just to give them credit, you know, or something like that.

Same thing, if I'm doing this conversation in ChatGPT, it's like, gimme these options, help me analyze. Help me compare, narrow it down for me. I'm not getting traffic to the website, but they're still learning about my company, still learning about what I have to offer. That's important. We want them to learn about what you have to offer; you want to be competing in that space, but you also have to recognize that website traffic is not going to be the same measure of success in SEO that it has been.

We used to be able to say, gosh, look, we're spending this much on SEO, and look, our traffic has doubled, so yay, it's working. That was like one of our key measures of success. And it's not the only one. Leads matter, right? Traffic that doesn't convert isn't any good. But that was one of the measures of success: more traffic. We did all this investment, we did all these things, we got more traffic. That measure of success is going to have to change because we aren't going to necessarily get more [00:15:00] traffic, even though we're investing in these activities the same way that we used to.

Kevin Weitzel: So, what you're talking about, and Dillard's is a fantastic example of exactly what you just described. You have certain KPIs, like they look at door swings, they look at the number of sales per day, they look at the average ticket sale per day. However, what they shifted to was it's not how many door swings we have, but what is the quality of the person to come in. So, if we have less people coming in, but they are better educated on the product that we sell, therefore we make more sales. So, those old KPIs that marketers would use, that are how many website visits, how many appointments did my OSC set, how many appointments were kept, those are still important, but it's more of a factor of the number of conversions you have from beginning to end result. Correct?

Greg Bray: Yeah, definitely. It is. Now, of course, the challenge is that in between there, we're looking for ways to measure our progress. Are we doing the right things? Are we getting mentioned? Are we able to show up? Because what you don't want is Dillard's is like, I'm looking for whatever Dillard's offers, but Dillard's [00:16:00] isn't even being shown to me as an option. Therefore, I don't even know it's out there because now this different tool is not giving me the same breadth of options that show up there.

But as marketers, we're still learning, how do we show up? How do we measure what's happening in ChatGPT? The good news is there are tools coming out to help with that. People recognize this problem. Google is starting, in Google Search Console, I was just reading the other day, they're starting to expose a little more of how often you're showing up in those little AI snippets and things in the search console, and some of that. There's going to be more tools over time to help us measure that, but the biggest thing is recognizing that website traffic alone is not going to be the only thing we can use to measure success.

Kevin Weitzel: So, as a shift happens, are there risks that marketers need to be concerned about, especially when they're looking at, you know, their ad spend?

Greg Bray: The trick is that we have to be able to communicate in a larger language, kind of concept of explaining things, but also provide the data [00:17:00] around it that helps answer very specific technical questions. Like, we can't have just a picture of a floor plan. We've got to have very specific descriptions about what's possible in here. Even getting down to the idea of a question like, Can my truck fit in this garage? What does somebody need to have available to be able to answer that kind of a question beyond just square footage? Things that people now are going to go, Hey, I can ask much more detailed questions and let this process large numbers of options for me, and narrow it down in a way that I couldn't do on Google. I had to find it first, and then I had to go through, and I had to kind of look at it and do all that work.

Well, now these tools, if they've got the right information, they can do that work for us, which is great. But as builders, we have to start providing more of that additional detail, those additional descriptions, and things. Because just looking at a picture, yes, they can process pictures, but if those don't have some of the dimensions or if they don't have some of the extra [00:18:00] background, that type of question might not be able to be answered today.

Kevin Weitzel: So, on the opposite end of the spectrum, if I had a small fleet of Fiat 500C convertibles and I wanted to find out how many of those 2015 Fiat 500C convertibles would fit in my garage in this particular home, AI will tell me that, right?

Greg Bray: I can tell you that. Just one.

Kevin Weitzel: Okay, so let me ask you this. With all these different changes that are coming into place, what kind of prioritization should marketers put on their content in regards, not necessarily to SEO, but to AEO and GEO?

Greg Bray: Here's the good news, Kevin, is that all of this stuff for GEO and AEO also still helps SEO. Content has always been the heart of SEO. Good content has always been the heart of SEO. Answering questions has always been what Google has been after and has been begging for, good quality content that answers questions. So, from that standpoint, starting to think about what are the questions that our prospective buyers, our customers, are asking? What do they [00:19:00] want to know? If we answer those questions, then we are going to do a better job of showing up in all the areas. But again, giving more of that data around it.

Taking advantage of what's called schema data. Schema data is something in the SEO world. It's behind the scenes. It's in the code, where it's labeling and saying, Oh, this particular piece of information is in this kind of a category. A simple example is a blog article, you know, where you mark it as, this is a blog article. This is the category it's in. There's special real estate-related schema data as well that we can use, and there's things around amenities and tagging those and everything else to help these engines understand even better where to categorize some of this data. That's going to help all of the opportunities across SEO and the GEO, and AEO opportunities as well. So, again, it's about structuring it so it makes sense, so it answers questions, and prioritizing good quality content.

Kevin Weitzel: All right. [00:20:00] Here's a big question, and I know everybody's asking this: Is technical SEO still relevant? Or does AI make it less relevant or not even important at all?

Greg Bray: So, here's an interesting experience I had, Kevin, I don't know if you've had this too, how much you're using some of these tools. Let's go back to my fishing charter example, right? I asked it, give me fishing charters. What's the first thing that popped up after I hit submit? Searching the web.

The chatbots are doing web searches to find the information you're looking for. They don't have all of it processed within their own databases already because they know that things are always changing, things are newer. So, when we talk about this idea of I want to show up there, and then the chatbot is doing a search. They're not processing 5,000 results to make sure that they covered every possible scenario. Now, I don't know how many results they're looking at, but still that first page, that top set of results, is still where you need to be [00:21:00] even if you want to show up within the chat search. So, there's still that traditional SEO piece that they're doing.

Now, it'll be interesting to see how that evolves because we know that, for example, ChatGPT, our understanding is that they're using the Bing search engine for those searches because of their partnership with Microsoft. Because Microsoft is a big shareholder in OpenAI. They're also building their own search engine as well. Perplexity is building their own search engine to spider and crawl these sites.

But there's still a search element of I can't look at everything, so how do I decide what I'm going to look at? So, again, SEO is completely still relevant. Even if traffic from Google has come down 15, 20% based on, you know, which study you look at and some of those things, there's nothing going away about all the things that SEO cares about. Because again, there's still search engines underneath all of this trying to prioritize and sort and figure out what's the best match.

Kevin Weitzel: Alright. Just like we have old sales dinosaurs that don't want to use CRMs and they don't want to [00:22:00] use the new technology, they just want to sell homes the old-fashioned way. We have some marketers right now that are standing on the edge of the top of a building wanting to literally hurl themselves to the ground floor of a 20-story building because they just don't like all these changes that are coming to place. For those marketers that are struggling with all these changes that are coming, what advice would you give to them to keep them, to step away from the edge of that building with all these changes that they're being bombarded with?

Greg Bray: I feel for them, Kevin. It is. There's a lot of change. It's a lot going on right now, and it's changing so fast. And it's almost like, gosh, maybe I shouldn't do anything because it'll be different tomorrow. That's one reaction that we have. The other reaction is it's like, I don't even know which one to start with. I think really you've gotta first say, I can't ignore this. I can't ignore it. I can't just bury my head in the sand and hope it goes away. These tools are already way better today than they were a year ago. They're going to continue to improve. There's new features coming out all the time. New improvements coming out all the time.

So, the other thing is you can't say, oh, I tested [00:23:00] that six months ago. It didn't do what I thought it was going to do, so I discounted it and moved on. You can't just throw it out either, just because it didn't work a while back. There might be something new. I think you need to find some folks that you can trust to kind of listen to.

You need to also though, just step back and say, Hey, at the end of the day, I'm using this to communicate with my customers, my prospects, the people that want what we have. We're trying to connect with the people who want what we have. We don't care about the people that are the wrong fit. It's not just about vanity metrics of, oh, I got to show up so many times in the search. If it's the wrong fit, I'm not going to sell. So, I need to hit the right fit. So, what do these people need to know to determine that I am the right fit? What we have is the right fit for them. It's going to be the same whether they're asking the question through path A or path B, if we're providing that information and communicating it clearly.

But the website's got to be current. It's got to be up to date. It's got to have all the options available more than ever. We've [00:24:00] got to get more detail about it. There's none of this, hold back and wait till they talk to the salesperson to find out all the information. We've got to put it out there as best we can so they can decide, and it will match up because you might not ever get the chance for that conversation if you don't.

Kevin Weitzel: Greg, have you ever seen the Wizard of Oz?

Greg Bray: I have.

Kevin Weitzel: I know it's a very elementary and silly question, but we've got marketers like let's say Will Duderstadt, that I can confidently say that he is parting in Emerald City. He's parting there because Emerald City is this world of SEO and AI and all the search engines and every single way you can do things. He's comfortably studied, tested, he's doing everything there. Then you got some people that can see it across the poppy fields. They've got some stuff in place. And then, you got some people that literally just spun in a tornado and landed in Munchkin Land in their house that just crashed on top of some old witch. What are two to three things that those people that just dumped out of a tornado can put into place right now? Those action steps that they can take to [00:25:00] prepare for the shift?

Greg Bray: The first thing, Kevin, is they just need to find out what these engines kind of know about them. Just pretend you're a customer and ask the question, Who are the top home builders in X, Y, Z city and see what it says. Are you on that list? If you're not on that list, ask it why. It'll tell you. How did you decide which of the ones you returned? How does your builder compare to these others? Ask it to compare and see, and you'll be amazed. It'll tell you its thought process.

I did this for Blue Tangerine, not too long ago, where I was just asking about how we compared, or what can you tell me about Blue Tangerine, the digital marketing agency, just to see what it would tell me. Just to see. And I said, Give me references of where you're getting your information. It pulled up some site I wasn't familiar with that had some reviews about us I'd never seen before. I had to go look at that and go, all right, where'd these come from? I've never heard of this site. It's like, why did you pick that?

So, I think just doing some simple auditing of your content. Asking [00:26:00] questions about your company instead of just worried about everything else. Asking it to tell you what it knows, how it compares, where it's getting its information. What reviews can you find about our company? And then go see what sites it's using for those reviews. And say, okay, it's using these sites for reviews, how do we get more reviews or improve our reviews on these sites? Again, I mentioned that schema markup. If your SEO program is not focused on schema data, then that's absolutely a place that you need to revisit because again, it applies to all of it, and it's becoming even more important.

And then, I'd say number three would be, take a look at Microsoft Bing a little more because we've been very focused on Google over the last few years, and especially that, Bing Places business profile. Because again, ChatGPT has kind of become the leader in the market, and we know that they're using that Bing-related data a little more than Google to help feed their engine. So, make sure that you've got some of those basic things checked out of the [00:27:00] box related to Microsoft Bing.

Kevin Weitzel: It's basically knowing how to ask a question. So, I went on, Greg, just the other day, and I asked Claude to give me an image of the sexiest sideburns on the planet. I kid you not, it showed me an image of my face. How did I even get in there? No, I'm just kidding. I'm lying. It didn't happen. But, alright, so lemme ask you this, this will be my final question here. You alluded to it before, but I'm going to ask it again just to make sure we nail this home. Is SEO dead? Should builders stop doing SEO?

Greg Bray: The short answer is SEO is not dead. SEO is changing. SEO is evolving. Traffic is down. Traffic is not the same as SEO. They used to be connected very tightly, right? Good. SEO meant more traffic. That is decoupling a little bit, and so therefore, some people are saying SEO is dead because of that decoupling. It's a little bit misleading to use that kind of phrase, in my opinion, because it [00:28:00] forgets the idea of what is SEO really about. Now, granted, the focus is changing as well. So, SEO about being in those top 10 links isn't quite as key focus as showing up in some of these other places.

But the great news is, all of the things that helped your SEO help with AEO and GEO, and all of this AI implications as well. At least right now. Maybe that'll change, and there'll be other ways that we load data into those over time and other places that they go to find things. I'm sure that they will continue to evolve. I do know that there are some things in the works where you might be able to load product information directly into ChatGPT to help educate it, that it can use publicly. There's things like that probably coming, but for now, it's getting its content off of your website. You've got to be visible, findable, and indexable, and have all the extra data on your website, and that's what SEO is really all about.

Kevin Weitzel: So, Suzy and Carl, those marketers that were on the edge of that building, they've now taken a step back. If they [00:29:00] wanted to reach out to you to get some sort of advice, some consultation, what's the best way for them to reach out to you?

Greg Bray: So, bluetangerine.com, just blue and the fruit, tangerine, and my email is greg@bluetangerine.com. You can also find me on LinkedIn and, of course, on The Home Builder Digital Marketing Podcast. Kevin, the other place they can find us is at The Home Builder Digital Marketing Summit in September in Atlanta.

Kevin Weitzel: Yes.

Greg Bray: We don't want people to miss out on that. We're going to be talking about this topic more in-depth on SEO and what you need to be doing. We're going to have a lot of other topics going on related to marketing. We've got some speakers specifically in the AI world that I'm really excited about. They're going to be there. So, if you're looking for more about how to get those leads, how to show up in the right places, please come join us. You can learn all about it at buildermarketingsummit.com. Kevin and I will be there, which I mean, just a chance to meet Kevin is worth the price of admission, you know, in my opinion. So, please put that on your calendars. Get registered [00:30:00] today, and we'd love to see you there.

Kevin Weitzel: Well, Greg, thank you for all of your answers and everything today. I kind of bombarded you with a bunch of stuff from different angles, but we really appreciate you. Thank you all for listening to The Home Builder Digital Marketing Podcast today. I'm Kevin Weitzel with OutHouse.

Greg Bray: I'm Greg Bray with Blue Tangerine. Thank you.