249 Establishing a Home Builder Name and Brand - Bill Sieversten Jan 1 2025

Greg Bray: [00:00:00] Hello, everybody, and welcome to today's episode of The Home Builder Digital Marketing Podcast. I'm Greg Bray with Blue Tangerine.

Kevin Weitzel: And I'm Kevin Weitzel with OutHouse.

Greg Bray: And we're excited today to have joining us, Bill Sieversten. Bill is the director of client services at Milesbrand. Welcome Bill, thanks for being with us today.

Bill Sieversten: Thank you guys, thanks for having me.

Greg Bray: Well Bill, let's start off and just get to know a little bit about you. Give us that quick background overview about yourself.

Bill Sieversten: Sure. I've been with Milesbrand, if you can believe it, off and on since 1996. So, that makes me feel really [00:01:00] old, but really proud to have worked for so long in such a great company. There have been times that I've left, pursued some other things, and then, you know, the market can kind of take you in different directions. You know, home building saw a bit of a downturn in the late, 2008, 2007, where I left Milesbrand for a little bit, but then came back in 2014 and have been back ever since, so.

Kevin Weitzel: All right. Well, before we dive into all that, we need to know some personal factoid about you that has nothing to do with work, the home building industry, or family. What do you got?

Bill Sieversten: Oh, that doesn't have to do with family. Well, I love doing hot yoga, if you guys can believe that. So, I go to hot yoga probably about five times a week. It's an hour class in about 100-degree heat with about 95 percent humidity. And it's a pretty active practice where it's not just holding poses for a long time, you're kind of working through it.

The whole concept behind it makes your body uncomfortable, makes you work a little bit harder. There are times where I'll go to that practice and I'll spend an hour [00:02:00] doing it and I'll crush it. But there will be times where I maybe only move for about 20 minutes and then the heat takes over and I've got to sit for about 40 minutes to catch up. But something that I love to do.

Kevin Weitzel: So, Bill, I have zero flexibility. I haven't touched my toes in at least three decades. I went to a hot yoga class one time and midway through the class, the instructor came over and tapped me and she said, sir, we need to ask you to leave. You're doing hot yogurt, not hot yoga.

Bill Sieversten: there you go.

Kevin Weitzel: I couldn't do it. It wasn't hot yoga class, by the way. It was just regular yoga and they didn't ask me to leave, but I do feel awkward because I do a lot more grunts and painful expulsions based on trying to even get into the position that they want me to get into. But I love yoga too.

Bill Sieversten: On with that. I'm probably the worst guy in class, but at least I'm in class. That's what I always tell myself.

Kevin Weitzel: Love it.

Greg Bray: Now Kevin, I thought in Phoenix, hot yoga was just like taking a walk.

Kevin Weitzel: Everyday yoga Yeah, it's just yoga.

Greg Bray: Yeah, it's just taking a walk outside, right?

Kevin Weitzel: We just call it yoga here.

Greg Bray: Everything's hot in Phoenix, though. Well, Bill, [00:03:00] tell us a little bit more about how you got into marketing, connected with Milesbrand, and kind of became connected with the home building industry.

Bill Sieversten: No, absolutely. I actually started working in printing. You guys remember printing, right? So, I actually worked for a printing company all through high school and through college. And then afterwards, I got hooked up with Milesbrand and came in to help them purchase their printing because of the experience that I had in the printing industry.

Back then we were doing a lot of collateral, and then just the natural progression of that, you kind of start working on display and outdoor. And then as that kind of grew, working on different sales offices, welcome centers, point of purchase, point of sale displays, and really be kind of came an expert in the whole printing area. But then that kind of moved on to, you know, working with different clients and helping with their accounts and getting to know our customers.

Then it just kind of naturally progressed into account service where my position is now with director of client services. Don't do as much printing as we used to, but over the last 20, almost 30 years, you know, learned a lot [00:04:00] about digital marketing, web development and so on and so forth. So, that's where most of my passion and what I do on a day-to-day basis lies.

Kevin Weitzel: So, if you were back in printing back in the nineties, that means you were like etching plates, you were doing typeset, you're using Heidelberg, Ryobi's, what were you using?

Bill Sieversten: Yeah, they were Camoris.

Kevin Weitzel: Oh, okay.

Bill Sieversten: Yeah. And it was actually out on the press room floor. So, you know, I started kind of sweeping the room, and then worked up into just helping, you know, on the press crew. So, I never worked in pre-press, but back then, yes, we were still working on film. So, it went from film to stripping to plating. It was before digital came into play, but yeah. So, know a lot about printing and how color works. And it's kind of funny that, you know, a lot of those things that you learn on the press room floor, you know, still apply today and what you're doing with our creative work in marketing.

Kevin Weitzel: So, let's address one thing really quickly before we get more into the marketing stuff. Could you talk to the audience really quick, just the marketers that are listening, when they look at a rendering for approval and they say, we'd like the green to be more [00:05:00] green, and we'd like the blue to be a little bit closer to blue. You know, we specified this certain blue color and it seems to be a little off. Are we crazy in the fact that we should expect that they should understand that every monitor looks a little bit different for each color? Even different printers will print out a slightly different hue based on the machine in question?

Bill Sieversten: 100 percent. So, yeah, you're looking at different monitors. You're looking at your phone screen. You see it's smaller. It's going to look more condensed on your mobile device than it would on your actual computer monitor. And then if you actually see that in the jumbotron at a stadium, you know, what is the color going to look like? So, yeah, there is going to be that variable that you have to work with.

So, you get it to where you think it's going to work best. If somebody says, Hey, this looks too blue, it's not just adding blue to it. Sometimes it's taking a little bit of yellow away or a little bit of red away to help the blue shine. So, you just do your best upfront and you'd be surprised at how dialed in a lot of the different monitors and viewing devices actually are.

Greg Bray: Well, Bill, for folks who are not as familiar with Milesbrand, give us that [00:06:00] overview of what you guys do and who you serve and the types of services you provide.

Bill Sieversten: Yeah, so we're a full-service branding and marketing agency and our tagline is from land to brand. So we, a lot of times we'll do our best work when we start with a company, let's say it's a community or a builder, you know, from the very beginning, help with the naming of that company, building their brand and starting it from the ground up.

But not to say that we don't have to do it that way. You know, we've done a number of and I would say some of our most successful clients and successful campaigns have been with brand refreshes. So, it's not like we have to start from the very beginning. We can come in at any time and work with the company to do that.

So, we feel that real estate marketing and branding is our passion. It's what we do best. We have a great history. My coworkers at Milesbrand, a lot of us have been there 15 plus years, off and on. We work really, really well together. But again, it's a full-service agency that specializes in anything that a home builder or new community development will need for their marketing purposes.

Whether we do it in-house, we don't [00:07:00] do everything in-house, but we find the right partners to help us, specifically with you guys at Blue Tangerine. We don't develop websites, we help create them, you know, the consumer part of it, the branding, the look, but then we work with you guys to help get those websites developed and up and running.

Greg Bray: You know, Bill, sometimes when I talk to people about what I do and kind of marketing in the home building industry and things in general, people don't always realize that everything that is named like a street in a community and the community itself and the logo, all that stuff, somebody has to sit down, get in a room and say, what are we going to call this stuff? What are we going to come up with?

And I think it's fascinating when you talk about starting with a total blank slate, if you will, on a brand new community, all of the little things that have to be done before that kind of comes to life, where do you even start when somebody walks in and say, I just bought a piece of dirt. I want to put, you know, this kind of home in here [00:08:00] potentially and this many of them. Give me a brand. What does that process even look like?

Bill Sieversten: So, a lot of times that process, if we're taking it from there, like a piece of dirt. What is their plan with that piece of dirt? You kind of touched on it. Are they just building single family homes there? Or is it a mixed-use community where they're going to have multifamily apartment, build or rent homes? Is it going to have a commercial or retail component to it? So, what is their ultimate goal for that?

Is it a piece that they want to develop into a community that they're going to sell over the next 10, 15, 20 years? Or is it a piece of land that they want to develop, get going and just sell to a builder and, you know, let that builder buy the land and put what they want into it and how they want to do it?

But I would say the first thing that we usually start with with that part of it is the name. And the name is probably the hardest part of what we do. Getting a community named or any name really is usually the hardest part of what we do because it can invoke a personal reaction to somebody that you maybe weren't expecting. You know, maybe it was somebody they knew in high [00:09:00] school or it reminds them of an ex-girlfriend so that can take a name right off the table.

And you also got to be careful of the competition. We don't want to name anything, the heights or the reserve or the pines. There's enough of those, right? So, how can you come up with a unique name that hasn't been used before, that hasn't been used by a small little apartment complex on the outskirts of town who may have used that name and then you can't use it?

So, you got to find a name that not only invokes some emotion to it, that's not going to bother the client for something personal and also two, is going to be timeless, that in 10, 15 years when this community is getting ready to close out that the name is still relevant and still working and representing the brand that you've built with that community.

Kevin Weitzel: I'm personally a fan of themes. There's a builder up in Delaware that named their plans after Seinfeld characters which I thought was interesting. Insight Homes I think they were called. To date have you had a client that has used the theme of Star Wars. So you could say, I live on Tatooine.

Bill Sieversten: It's funny enough, actually, we [00:10:00] had somebody contact us from Endor, the 12th moon of Endor. And they were looking to go back, and it was actually not a new one, it wound up being another one of those brand refreshes that we told you we were so successful with. And they wanted us to rename the 8th moon of Endor after they saw all the work we had done on Yavin 12. So, that's how it worked.

Kevin Weitzel: That man right there, Greg, is a Star Wars fan right there. You pulled some insecurities out of the woodwork.

Greg Bray: I was just going to say, he's dropping some Star Wars names that I'm not sure all of us know. Yeah, there we go.

Bill Sieversten: Yeah, we may have turned some people off or really got him tuned in now. You know, where's this going to go?

Kevin Weitzel: Here in Phoenix, we have this theme where in downtown they named the roads after presidents.

But after they got to about the sixth or seventh president, they're like, we don't remember what president it was. And then they just started naming it like, you know, Filibuster Street and Carlson street, just random names. So, I think we should name a community and educate the people that live there at the same time.

Bill Sieversten: That is something and it's funny that you mentioned street names, you know, actually naming [00:11:00] streets are actually really hard because you've got the city that you've got to work with.

So, you know, emergency services, if you have like, Thomas Jefferson Parkway they're like, where the heck is Thomas and Jefferson Parkway, you know, so you've got to kind of be conscious for emergency service when you're naming streets. So, that goes back to the whole deal where, you know, naming is probably one of the toughest things that we do.

Greg Bray: Well, and Bill, somebody needs to tell the folks in Georgia that there are more names than just Peachtree that they can use.

Bill Sieversten: Yes. You know, funny enough, we work with a couple of clients down in the Naples area and the city or the county that they're in actually gives you a documentation of overused project names. So, if you're starting a new project, the city will give you a list of names that don't use. You know, anything that has lake in it, anything that has sun in it, pines, heights. So, that's kind of helpful.

Along with those names too, one thing I do want to mention is, we work really closely with the land planners and landscape architects and, you know, the people who are developing that community. So, their vision that they may have for the community that they know they want to [00:12:00] do a lot of times to try and tie that name in with it. Kind of understanding the colors of the vegetation that they're going to use in the community, you know, like the bushes, the trees, the flowers around the monument, you know, do they have a lot of those colors specked out and do they know what those plants are going to be?

We try to make sure we incorporate that into some of our marketing and our color palette in our marketing, so we can create a lot of brand consistency with the community and the marketing. One thing that you'll see oftentimes there could be a pretty big disconnect between a community when you get to it and the marketing that you're seeing that drove you there.

Greg Bray: Just one last thought on names. It is fascinating to me how a name can trigger emotion. How much of the marketing and branding do you guys feel comes with the name like it's built into it and how much of it do you create once the name is there and the rest of us are just embracing the emotion that you've created around it with the work that you guys do on the brand versus the fact that this word already has something built into it?

Bill Sieversten: That's a really good [00:13:00] question. It's a combination of both. You want a name that's going to evoke a positive emotion, and that name needs to be unique enough that it's not going to be reminding you of something else or another community or project, a home building project in the area. And then, your marketing your creative direction, your creative development needs to support that.

But more importantly, before you get to really that creative development part of it, the second part in our process, which is the brand promise or tagline. So, we like to think that the brand promise is just as important as the name and that's where a lot of times you'll get some of that emotional payoff that you're looking for.

You know, some of the greatest taglines that you can think of, you know, Nike, just do it. Target, expect more, pay less, Home Depot, let's build something together. So, when you hear the name Home Depot, you kind of get it, but then when you hear the tagline or the promise, let's build something together that really works, that kind of tells you what you're going to do there. So, a lot of the times for us is that brand promise is what's going to really pay off the emotion of [00:14:00] the name.

Greg Bray: So Bill, as you guys work with builders, a lot of builders, no offense intended, don't have a lot of marketing background. They come at this from the, I just want to create these beautiful homes. They know that process. They understand it. Do you find that the builders get this when you start talking to them about brand and emotion and feeling and words and all that? Or they're just like, yeah, whatever, just tell me what it's going to be so I can start building my houses.

Bill Sieversten: No, 100%. That's why they come to us. That's why they come to Milesbrand because we do put that emotion and we bring that hopefully clarity to the market for what that community is going to be. We don't look for companies that just want us to just come up with a name that's going to be cool and catchy. We're trying to build a process again for a community or a builder that's going to be around and have that timeless staying power. So, for us, it is a pretty big deal. Nobody really comes to us with the idea of just bang this out. It's usually a bit of a process, so we can help them and walk through the whole from land to brand with them through the [00:15:00] whole way.

Greg Bray: So, you mentioned that often you're dealing with rebrands. Something's been there and you're trying to improve it, you know, move it forward. When you look at some of those brands that you're like, okay, how do we improve upon this, what are some of those mistakes that you've seen in the past or things that maybe they missed along the way that you guys are kind of looking for? It's like, okay, how do we improve this? Or how do we fix that? What are some of those things that you look for?

Bill Sieversten: Sure. Again a really good question. A lot of times, you know, if we're doing a brand refresh, let's say the community is six years old and they have a name and a tagline and a look that probably made sense six years ago, but maybe their target market has shifted. You know, maybe they, at one point, we're more of a value product cause they were built 15 miles outside of the city proper. So, you know, people were driving out there to look for the best value, but the rest of the market is caught up to them. So, they've still got six, seven years on their books and 800 homes left to sell, 900 homes to sell, so, they're looking for a brand refresh. So, maybe it's not just value that's [00:16:00] driving them.

I think the number one thing is understanding your target audience, and then also kind of look at the consistency. Is your marketing paying off what people are going to see when they get to your community or see the home that you're actually marketing. And then three kind of ties these both together is the messaging. Is the messaging relevant to the audience and to the target buyer that is most likely going to buy your home or live in your community.

Kevin Weitzel: So, wait, you're going to stand there and tell me, Bill, that Plain Jane Homes that built Plain Jane Homes, if they want to do a rebrand, they've got to come up with a new name even?

Bill Sieversten: You know, it depends, you know, what do people feel about Plain Jane Homes. Have they built a strong reputation on Plain Jane Homes? So, if there is a staying power there, and then it kind of goes back to what Greg said initially about emotion. If Plain Jane Homes is an emotional name for that company, we're being silly and we, you know, talking about Plain Jane, but if it's a name that we think doesn't work, but we understand that this name is not a negotiable. This was my grandfather's name. My grandfather started this company. This is a [00:17:00] legacy company. We're not changing the name.

But maybe their brand promises change. You know, maybe Plain Jane Homes brand promise was regular homes for regular people, but now it's Plain Jane Homes, it's luxury homes for the next stage of your life, you know, something like that. So how can that brand promise kind of help that name?

So, a lot of times we'll update the brand promise. We'll update the logo. To a point, you know, we do want to keep some consistency of Plain Jane Homes has had like a huge legacy and a great reputation in their market for like 50, 60 years. You know, that's something we don't want to take away. So we'll update it. We'll change their tagline. We'll refresh the brand and make sure that we work with that home builder to make sure that the brand that they're moving forward pays off what their target audience is looking for.

Kevin Weitzel: Love it.

Greg Bray: As you go through that type of a rebrand, especially when you're updating a brand promise, how much work do you guys do with the employees and team members of the company itself to help them embrace this new promise and to [00:18:00] educate them on the change in messaging or the evolution of messaging so that they are all kind of marching on the same sheet of music, so to speak?

Bill Sieversten: We have a four step process, a three step process, depending on where we're at. For a brand refresh, it'll probably be around a three step process. And the first step in that process is we hold a brand charrette. A lot of people are familiar with the design charrette when it comes to homes or neighborhoods, but this is actually a brand charrette. So, we'll get everybody in the same room and it's usually about three to four hours where the Milesbrand team is there.

We ask some questions where we get to know different parts of their company, their organization, their product, who their customers are, and who their competitors are. So we find out a lot of that information up front in that charette meeting. It's an opportunity for us to really listen and hear from those employees and from the people that are part of that company. You know, what are the sacred cows? What are the things that they're looking to change?

So, once we get that information, that's when we come back with our brand positioning, and the brand positioning document allows them to see [00:19:00] the different creative options that we're going with. If we're renaming the community or keeping the same name, we're still going to do at least 3 different creative directions for them to look at, review.

If it's the same name, let's just say it's a brand process where they're keeping the same name, they'll have three different brand promises and then three different creative looks and color palettes that will go along with that brand promise to see how it works and resonates. And it's kind of an open process too, where they may see something and be like, you know, we really like the look and the colors that you use for brand promise one, but we like brand promise two better. Can those all come together?

And what we do is we do work with them in that positioning meeting that's again, about two, two and a half hours where we get their input to see how the brand is coming together and see where they want to take it. And that's a usually a good part of our process. So those are the first two steps in our process. The third step is then going to market, you know, how do we take that brand to market once we have the whole team on board with the look, feel, name, and tagline. [00:20:00] Then how do we get that all to market?

Greg Bray: And do you find that within the team though that there's also again just looking at the broader team, like you've got your construction supervisors and the warranty department and some of these other folks that have to exude this new vision of what it is that our company represents, do you guys help educate them as well or is it more just the marketing team that you work with?

Bill Sieversten: A lot of times it is the marketing team that are doing that, but we give the marketing team tools. So, a lot of times what we'll do with that is we'll create an internal brand book, we'll call it. A brand book is something that all the employees will have. A number of times the companies will even hold a meeting where they'll hand out the brand books and they'll all get together as a company and go over the brand books, look through them, give them the opportunity to ask questions.

And again, through part of the process, we're hoping that they're excited. They've come to us because they are looking for a brand refresh, they're excited about the brand refresh. Yes, you may get some holdouts that are like, no, the brand is fine. We don't need that. But more often than not, I would say I've rarely seen that if ever. Everybody's pretty excited [00:21:00] about it.

So, I can give you guys example of those brand books or post them on our website if you guys would like to see it, but it's it really is a way to showcase the direction that the company is now heading with their brand. And it really does create excitement and gets people backing what they're going to get.

Greg Bray: So Bill, I'm sure that you look at a lot of marketing from builders that you don't work with. You're always out there seeing what they're putting out, the kinds of messaging they have, and you probably study competitors of the people you are working with to understand what's out there.

When you are looking at, what builders do, and of course these are not Milesbrand clients, because Milesbrand clients don't do these things, what are the things that you just kind of go, yuck. I can't believe they're doing that, some of these mistakes that you see builders making out there with what they're putting out in the market.

Bill Sieversten: That's a really good question. It goes back to what we talked about in the beginning is knowing who your target audience is. I'll see this more often than not, it's maybe not so much in what they're messaging, but how they're messaging it. You really need to know your audience and know what they're [00:22:00] looking for and understand the tactics that are going to best get you the results that you want and know what those results are.

So, when I see like a home builder banner over a stadium or over a big event, is that the best use of your money? Because let's say there's 50, 80, 000 people at that stadium. That's great. You're going to hit a huge audience, but do you have 50, 80, 000 people looking to buy a new home right now or interested in buying a new home right now? Probably not. So, that's one of the things that I think makes me cringe the most is not working your marketing efforts in the right way.

Greg Bray: So, spending money to get in front of the wrong audience.

Bill Sieversten: Correct. Yeah. Thank you for saying that so much better than I did.

Greg Bray: I see that too. Right. I see people putting things out there in broad consumer-oriented type ways that are, aimed for everybody when everybody is not buying a new home today. And not only that, but a lot of them aren't the right audience, even if they are buying a new home for your homes, the ones that you're putting out there.

Kevin Weitzel: How often do you find [00:23:00] a builder, and I'm going to use a food example, because I won't eat at this restaurant because of their ads. So, how often do you have a builder that hits the mark that they want to send this message, but the message is so off putting that you're like, you're not seeing that this is off putting. Example, Carl's Jr. You know when they have that commercial where there's a rather good looking woman eating a burger and it's just sloppy, falling all over the place?

Bill Sieversten: Yeah, I remember that's a few years old, right?

Kevin Weitzel: It grosses me out. I won't eat there because of that. It just makes me sick to my stomach watching somebody eat some sloppy food that's just falling all over the place. I don't want that on me. So, do you ever have that kind of example where it may elicit that type of response? Because I will not eat at Carl's Jr. because of that ad.

Bill Sieversten: Oh no. Gosh. I don't recall ever being disgusted by anybody's home building marketing , ,

Kevin Weitzel: Or just blatantly missing the mark completely.

Bill Sieversten: Yes. Blatantly missing the mark again is, I think, like Greg said, that really well, spending to the wrong audience. And also too, there's [00:24:00] just a lot of tools that are available right now.You A lot of people want to do their own research before they make any contact with the builder. So, on your website, if you don't have a digital tour of your model home, or if you don't have different information about what's available in the home, or what kind of personalization parts you can do to your home.

Do you have a design center? Is it a quick moving home? Is it a spec home? Is it a home that you're going to be giving out on a discount because you're looking to sell it? If you don't have a lot of that information for the buyer, cause you don't know everybody's customer journey is a little bit different.

If I go to a builder website, I want to see A. Where they're building, B. What they're building, and honestly, most importantly, how much they're building for, you know, what is this going to cost me? So, those are the three things, and I think when people miss that mark where they don't maybe touch on where they're building enough. So it's like, oh, this home's beautiful. This is where I want to live and it's in Phoenix.

But then I come to find out, oh, it's not exactly in Phoenix. It's at one of those distant practice stadiums way, way out there. It's [00:25:00] like, they're kind of toting that they're building in Phoenix. This place is an hour and a half from Phoenix. How come I didn't know that when I was on the website? I'd love to see what the inside of this home looks like before I go toward the model. In this day and age for the price that it costs to create an online virtual tour, you should be able to have that on your website.

Greg Bray: Well, Bill, this has been a great conversation. Just a couple of more questions before we kind of wrap up. Not every builder is in a position where they can bring in a team of the quality of Milesbrand every day to help them with some of this. If you've got that small or just getting started builder who really doesn't have that marketing budget, what are some tips you can give them to help them still embrace this naming, messaging, branding type of vision?

Bill Sieversten: First off, we would love to work with any builder who doesn't know what their budget is, or if they have a budget and they're like, we don't know if we can actually get this. It's still worth the conversation. You know, we can work with you on what your budget is and try and make that as successful as possible. We can even help you build a budget. How much should you spend on marketing? [00:26:00] We can give you different options for that. A lot of times, what we think you should spend and what you want to spend on marketing can absolutely vary.

And again, and I'm gonna sound like a broken record, but understand your target audience. Who are you marketing to? Who are the people who are going to be buying your homes? You know, can you create lookalike audiences to mirror who these people are? I think that would be a really easy first step.

And then, understanding your success metrics. You know, what are your KPIs? What are you looking for? Are you looking for client engagement? Are you looking for web traffic? Are you looking for foot traffic? Are you looking for actual leads? Are you looking for sales? So, understand your metrics and help us understand them as your marketing partner. We'll let you know the best way and the best avenues to take your marketing to meet the success metrics that you've placed. Or if you need help coming up with success metrics, we can do that too.

Greg Bray: Well, Bill, do you have any last thoughts or pieces of marketing advice that you wanted to leave with our audience today?

Bill Sieversten: I think so. There's a couple of things that I know I always kind of look at when I'm working on something, and that is be authentic to your [00:27:00] brand. If you have a brand embrace that brand, be authentic to it and let that guide your marketing moving forward.

And also don't be afraid to ask questions. I ask questions all the time. I find the right people to help me no matter who it is. When we're in that brand charette, we listen to everyone. We try to understand what everybody has to say, what everybody has to offer because you never know when you're going to get the right idea.

Never feel like your idea, your direction that you want to go with is the way to go. Don't oversell it. You know, make sure you understand what works and how you can make it better. It's always better to embrace other people's ideas and you'd be amazed at how often that'll show through in the brand because they're the ones working for the company.

They understand the brand just as well as you should. So, kind of embrace what they're doing and give them the opportunity to go forward with what their thoughts are as well. Just be their guide.

Greg Bray: Well, again, Bill, thanks so much for being with us. We appreciate all your insights. If someone wants to learn more and connect with you, what's the best way for them to get in touch?

Bill Sieversten: Yeah, you can get in touch with me. You can visit milesbrand.com, fill [00:28:00] out a form there or contact us through that. Or my email is bill@milesbrand.com.

Greg Bray: Thank you everybody for listening today to The Home Builder Digital Marketing Podcast. I'm Greg Bray with Blue Tangerine.

Kevin Weitzel: And I'm Kevin Weitzel with OutHouse. Thank you.