230 Returning to Home Builder Marketing Basics - Jake Kaplan Aug 14 2024

Greg Bray: [00:00:00] Hello everybody and welcome to today's episode of The Home Builder Digital Marketing Podcast. I'm Greg Bray with Blue Tangerine.

Kevin Weitzel: And I'm Kevin Weitzel with OutHouse.

Greg Bray: And we're excited today to have joining us Jake Kaplan. Jake is the VP of Finance at Garman Homes. Thanks for being with us today, Jake.

Jake Kaplan: Thanks for having me.

Greg Bray: Well Jake, let's start off today by just getting to know a little bit about you. Give us that quick background and overview about yourself.

Jake Kaplan: Yeah, absolutely. So, I was actually born and raised in Detroit. I live in Raleigh, North Carolina, a suburb of Raleigh in [00:01:00] Holly Springs. I actually started in the jewelry industry when I was in high school. So, as I was going to classes, afterwards I would go to the jewelry store. I would be selling jewelry. Learned sales and also learned website maintenance. Started up the website for that jewelry company and just kind of got the bug for working. I absolutely loved working. When I wasn't at school, I wanted to be working.

When I graduated high school, I actually moved down here to North Carolina and immediately started working again. So, I started still in the jewelry industry. So, I actually found a job at a pawn shop. I was a pawnbroker and kind of work myself up. I had become general manager of the store, of the location and that's where I had met my wife, Kenzie.

We have three beautiful girls, as well as a son, Jorge. Two of the girls and Jorge I inherited from her from a previous relationship. And then we have Kylie, our youngest daughter together, and then [00:02:00] Sophia and Nicole. I'd inherited and actually just recently finished adopting them.

When I'm not at work, you can find me either chasing our kids around or I'll be at the gym or at a local restaurant, one of our favorite restaurants eating. I think working out and eating just kind of combat each other for me. So, those are two of my biggest passions.

Kevin Weitzel: There is so much I can impact just from that first little bit right there. Number one, thank you for adopting because there is a special place reserved in whatever the afterlife would be for people that love people unconditionally like that. So, thank you. I appreciate you as a human being.

Jake Kaplan: Thank you.

Kevin Weitzel: It really does take a special part of someone's inner being to be loving like that and to be a father for somebody that you just take them in. So again, thank you. Number two, how on this green earth does anybody live in Detroit and leave to go somewhere else? I mean, that's the Mecca of awesome, bro. [00:03:00]

Jake Kaplan: I know. I really do love my Detroit roots.

Kevin Weitzel: True Detroit. Are we talking like Detroit, Detroit? Are we talking like Ypsilanti or?

Jake Kaplan: No, like 20, 30 minutes away from Detroit. Kind of like North Carolina set up, Raleigh setup as well, but it's Metro Detroit. So, I was about 30 minutes away from downtown Detroit.

Kevin Weitzel: Like Gross Point, you know, people are like, Oh, I'm from Gross Point. They don't even say Detroit.

Jake Kaplan: I lived in Birmingham and in Novi.

Kevin Weitzel: Novi. Okay.

Jake Kaplan: Yep.

Kevin Weitzel: I have a builder over there in Novi. So, let me ask you this. Where to the point of the show, the show, is it a show Greg, or is it just a podcast?

Greg Bray: It's a big show. It's a big show.

Kevin Weitzel: It's a big show. We're at the point of the podcast where before we get into you and Garman Homes, we need to find out something personal about you, not about your kids, nothing about work, or anything else. Just something interesting that our listeners will learn about you today.

Jake Kaplan: Yeah. I find this kind of odd-even about myself, but I actually really love mowing the grass. I find it very peaceful, very relaxing, and very [00:04:00] satisfying to just do kind of a mundane, like pushing the lawnmower back and forth, popping the headphones in. I'm oddly satisfied by it while I also hate the heat and the bugs that come along with it and also don't think I'm too great at it. I do really enjoy pushing lawnmower.

Kevin Weitzel: I do too. It was my first job. I was nine years old and I wanted school clothes and we were poor. So, I talked my mom into going to Montgomery Wards and buying me a lawnmower. And I paid her back in about a month and a half and then all the money after that went to me to buy school clothes instead of going to school with seven-year-old hand-me-downs for my brother, you know?

Jake Kaplan: Awesome. I started mowing grass too, when I was around that age, shoveling snow, loved it, loved that little hustle bug that I started to get.

Greg Bray: Kevin, we can't move on without going back to the pawn shop though. Jake, craziest thing you ever saw at a pawn shop?

Jake Kaplan: There were so many crazy things. I think that one of my least favorite things that would come in probably on a weekly basis [00:05:00] is the gold fronts, the teeth that people would wear, and then they would just take them right out of their mouth and put them directly into my hand to either sell them or get a loan on them.

I'm a pretty friendly person, but when someone does something like that, it's kind of like, you've just ended this. There's no chance that I'm going to be upbeat and friendly at this point.

Kevin Weitzel: Isn't there some kind of human code that you're not supposed to just drop your grill in somebody's palm?

Jake Kaplan: You'd think. You'd think that's an unwritten, unwritten law.

Greg Bray: How did you go from jewelry to pawn shop to home building? Where's the leap there into the current situation?

Jake Kaplan: Yeah. So, honestly, the pawn shop taught me so many different things, but I really enjoyed the finance part of the pawn shop, evaluating. I loved learning negotiations and it's really where I learned to read people as well. Because a lot of what I was responsible for was looking at a person in their eyes and trying to be able to tell are they telling me the truth? Are they really going to come back for this item? Or [00:06:00] is this item not theirs and they shouldn't be selling it to begin with, or they shouldn't be getting a loan to begin with? That kind of helped teach me these foundational skills that I've had carry over to my current career.

So, while I was at the pawn shop, I got my real estate license because I was ready for a change. I'd met my wife, you know, then she wasn't my wife, but I met my future wife and I knew that I wanted to make a change, and I got my real estate license. The day that I sat for my real estate exam was the day that I quit the pawn shop.

Even before taking the exam, I kind of went all in on it and I sold real estate for a year. Learned a lot. I found that it wasn't my passion. I didn't love selling. I didn't enjoy kind of grinding and finding customers and buyers. I enjoyed more like kind of the marketing aspects of real estate and getting stuff out there and talking to people about real estate, but not necessarily the hunt [00:07:00] of a buyer or a seller.

So, I did that for a year. And then, I was working at the real estate company that our owners, Jim and Elena of Garman Homes, they owned a real estate firm as well as a real estate school. After that year, they invited me to run the real estate school for them. So, I ran that for about two years. And at the end of two years, it was in 2018, they sold the school as well as the real estate company, and they brought me over to Garman.

And when I joined Garman, it was look at each department, learn whatever you can, find your niche, see what you're going to really be great at. So, I had an amazing opportunity to just dive into this industry and to learn it front and back and figure out what I loved. So, I did that for a few months until I really found my niche in finance.

I started as the division controller, I was doing HR tech support, kind of all-encompassing of a controller. As we started to grow, I [00:08:00] moved into vice president of finance role. I'm managing all of our banks. I'm overseeing all of our financial activity from the controllers that I have in place at our two divisions. And then I'm working alongside our senior leadership team to grow the business and to really work on operations.

That's why I'm talking to you on a marketing podcast because just recently I have stepped into the marketing leader role to kind of reevaluate our business, look at the processes that we've got in place, and start to streamline and see where we can save some money, where we can optimize our spend, and how we can organize this department just a little bit better.

Greg Bray: Well, before we peel that onion a little bit, let's just give people the quick background, where does Garman Homes build, what types of homes are you guys doing who's kind of your target market that you're going after?

Jake Kaplan: Yeah, absolutely. So, we're out of Raleigh, North Carolina. Raleigh is a pretty big area. We've got a lot of sub-markets within Raleigh, and then we also build in Greensboro. [00:09:00] So, our Greensboro market is newer. We opened there about four years ago, and it's just a completely different world. It's about an hour, hour and a half from Raleigh, but it's just a different market to learn. So, we've been enjoying getting to know that market as well as specializing in our niche here in Raleigh.

Our average price point is around 450 between both divisions and we really love that sweet spot. We are looking for land and opportunities that are within that median price range. We'd love to be the from the builder when we go into communities with multiple builders.

And our homeowners really range. We thought that our first-time home buyers were going to be kind of our niche, but we have found that moved-down buyers and empty nesters, really anybody that understands the connection that we look to make with our buyers are the ones that are looking to live in our houses.

We just opened up a community out in Fuquay, and we found that our [00:10:00] demographic there, we had primary bedroom on the first floor plans, we have single car garage plans, so first time introducing those to the market. We found that our buyer ended up being a lot of divorcees that were just going through a really hard time.

We have sales ambassadors out there that do such a great job at connecting with our buyers and really meeting them where they're at and understanding that it's a hard thing that they're going through. We understand that not every home purchase is a joyous occasion that it can be a lot, it can be a lot to unpack and our sales ambassadors do a great job of walking alongside them and bringing them along for the process.

Greg Bray: I'm just thinking Kevin, the kinds of taglines that could go along with targeting current people in a divorce situation.

Kevin Weitzel: Without it sounding like a pickup line like you're rolling. Ladies, ladies, ladies, did you just leave your man because he's a deadbeat? Come on down. No. Something like that?

Greg Bray: No. Alright. Jake, don't take marketing advice from us. But, uh. Well, let's dive in a little [00:11:00] bit deeper because you've been in the finance and the operational role and now you're moving into the marketing role. As you step into that, what are the kinds of things that you start looking at that you are trying to understand and be able to evaluate to decide, is this something we want to keep doing? Is this something we need to change? What's kind of the process that you're going through with that evaluation?

Jake Kaplan: Yeah, absolutely. So, we have designer-curated packages that we essentially have two different brains right now. And what we've discovered is that by having two different brains and two different experiences that our customers are walking through, it's confusing. It's confusing from a consumer standpoint. It creates more processes on our end as well. So, we're looking at streamlining and going to just one buyer experience where it is all designer-curated packages that our buyers are choosing from.

And when we made that decision, we were looking at launching just that single buyer experience in 2025, early [00:12:00] 2025. By making that decision, there's so much clarity that kind of opened up, especially in the world of marketing so that we can invest more in technology. We can lean into this one buyer experience and make sure that it is truly understood and that we can leverage our different marketing strategies so that it's understood that this is the buyer experience.

Greg Bray: Most of the time people don't have that opportunity to do that large kind of step back. What are we doing? Why are we doing it? What's working, what's not that comes with that fresh perspective. You know, the new eyes, if you will, looking at the situation that you're kind of bringing to it. And so, the idea of what determines for you if something's working, quote-unquote, or not. How do you evaluate and measure kind of your programs and the things that you're doing to decide what to keep and what to try to change?

Jake Kaplan: Yeah. That was one of the reasons I was so excited to step in this role because of my finance background, we really saw that marketing has [00:13:00] been taking a massive shift that it's not all about the pretty. But it's really all about the data and making sure that we are taking that data and optimizing it and using it to then craft more personal experiences for people.

So, I was excited to dive into that aspect. What I found is we still need to go back to the basics. We need to make sure that our website is accurate. We need to make sure that the specifications that we have listed are accurate, that the photography that we have is representative of the house that we're building. And I really kind of found myself in the weeds from the very beginning in that aspect.

And then I was able to, as we got that fixed, kind of go bird's eye view and say, okay, well, we're going to start creating these really killer experiences on our website. We're actually going to redesign our website so that it will be optimized for this new buyer experience. And we're going to [00:14:00] invest more in technology.

So, we're working alongside Anewgo right now to build out interactive virtual rendering floor plans that allow our buyers to turn on and off structural options as well as choose between our designer-curated packages in real-time. So, we think that it's going to be a great way for people to be able to visualize the packages that may be hard to visualize without that creative side.

Greg Bray: Hey, everybody. This is Greg from Blue Tangerine. And I just wanted to personally invite you to join Kevin and me at the upcoming Home Builder Digital Marketing Summit. It's going to be October 23rd and 24th in Raleigh, North Carolina. You do not want to miss this. We're going to have marketing education. We're going to have online sales counselor education. We're going to have networking, round table discussions, and of course, a whole lot of fun. So, make sure you get registered today and join us. You can get all the details at buildermarketingsummit.com. Can't wait to see you there.

 [00:15:00] As you are evaluating that experience, how have you decided the percentage that needs to happen like online digitally versus pulling them in and visiting the sales center or talking to somebody? How have you been trying to balance that digital interaction with the in-person?

Jake Kaplan: We really feel that everybody is starting on the website. They're starting online before they go into the model. So, it's being as transparent as possible on our website, giving them as much information as possible, but then also marrying that with here's our online sales counselor. We really want that experience to act as like a concierge.

So, they're setting the appointments, but they're really getting to know the buyer and making it a personal experience so that even before they are walking into the door of the models, they're greeted by our sales ambassadors that know the background, know what they're looking for and can kind of curate the experience to them.

Greg Bray: What are some of the [00:16:00] ways that you are deciding what works online or not? Are there some key metrics that you look to, to try to measure those various activities?

Jake Kaplan: Yeah, I think that key metrics that we are always looking at is incoming traffic, not only traffic but then obviously our lead count. The lead count is then broken down by our online sales counselor to really get feedback on the quality of the leads. Because we don't want to increase our lead count, but them not being that valid or not being as ready or just quality as quality leads that we are looking for. So, that and then the conversion rate to appointment and conversion rate finally to sell.

Greg Bray: As you are building out the marketing role for yourself, what type of team structure do you have in-house compared to what types of things do you look to partners like other agencies or things to help you provide and deliver?

Jake Kaplan: So, funny [00:17:00] enough, we're actually in the process of defining this. So, I recently just brought on board of vice president of marketing. So, she is going to be taking this department and really making it her own and looking at what team she needs to build out for us personally. But we really want that personal touch with our buyers.

For content, nobody knows our buyers, our voice, or a business like we do. So, we really think that having in-house authentic content creation is going to stay close to home. And then in terms of digital, the process of choosing keywords and digital ad optimization is a specialty and it's best left to the experts. So, that is a team that we will always have as a third-party partner with us.

But it's important to us that that partner is really invested in the success of those ads for us, and they're upset if our lead count decreases and they're celebrating with us when it increases, but they're actively looking ahead [00:18:00] to see what levers they can pull in order to optimize our spend for us.

Greg Bray: When you were looking for that VP of marketing, and as you think about the team that you're trying to build out, what are some of the key characteristics you're looking for in that hiring process? Is it all about technical skills, or is it more kind of soft people skills or other types of outside the industry versus inside home building experience? What's really important to you in that hiring process?

Jake Kaplan: We really were looking for a unicorn because I wanted to find somebody that had great experience. Somebody that maybe was inside the industry was great, but I also wasn't afraid to shop outside of the industry and to find that person that was just ready for that next step. We will train. We will invest in really great people. But our main thing that we're looking for is a great culture fit. They've got to understand who we are and be able to adopt our voice when they're putting out marketing efforts.

And especially for a leader, we want to make sure that they have the entrepreneurial spirit [00:19:00] and we want them to own their position. So, they need to look for ways to improve and implement quickly. And it was just a bonus that the vice president of marketing, we just hired Renee Carlson. She is absolutely amazing. She's been in the industry for a long time and she's been close by. So she knows our voice. She understands the personal connection that we look to make with people and the importance of storytelling in everything that we do.

Greg Bray: Now, Jake, here's a chance to put the finance hat back on because lots of times we talk to marketers and they have ideas and they want to execute things and they struggle to get budget approval from the finance people, right? From the finance side, what are the things that you want your marketing team to bring to you when they're asking for money?

They want to spend some money and we all know that you've got to invest in order to drive leads and everything else, but nobody wants to spend more than you have to and you want to make sure it's being done effectively and properly. So, from the finance [00:20:00] perspective, how do we get money out of Jake to spend on marketing, right? What do we have to tell you to get you to invest?

Jake Kaplan: I love that question because I am not your typical finance guy because I really understand that marketing spend that needs to go into making conversions happen and I really appreciate the work and the craft of marketing and the passion that it takes to create a really well thought out marketing campaign that it takes to get our buyers and that storytelling.

It's funny because our banks actually love receiving updates from me because I love storytelling, and email, I feel like is kind of one of my superpowers. So, I'm not just regurgitating numbers at them. I am crafting the entire story of here's what happened in the last quarter. And yes, these are the results of what's been happening, but this is how our business was performing.

But from a marketing standpoint, when they're looking to spend money and increase budgets, [00:21:00] I'm looking to see, okay, well, how many leads are we getting? What are our sales looking like? What are our goals looking like for the next projected quarter to warrant those added costs? I know that there's going to be some costs that aren't directly related to those sales that we're going to get, but they're going to be costs for just brand awareness and how much of our monthly budget is spent on just brand awareness versus leads that will convert.

Greg Bray: Do you guys allocate a marketing budget based on your sales, or is it more on a case-by-case basis? Like you say, X percent of sales is going to be available to marketing. Or is it more of a case-by-case basis of we want to run this program and it should do this, we want to run this program and it should do that? How do you kind of evaluate the budget process?

Jake Kaplan: Yeah, it really is community by community. So, we are not looking at it from a per unit basis, especially since we do have some communities that we're in that have their own marketing department, the developer has their own marketing department that we're paying into. [00:22:00] So, we're looking to see where do we need to supplement those communities and which communities are we in that we are the sole marketing entity that needs to provide awareness of that community.

So, it really is community by community, but then it's also entirely like brand presence for Garman Homes. We do look back to see, okay, how much did we spend versus how many leads did we get? And understanding too that there's a lag between, okay, we spent money this month, but that lead is going to take some time to actually convert in order to get the sales.

Greg Bray: I find it really interesting when I talk to people because, let's be honest, Kevin and I are selling things to builders and those things are often looked at as marketing expenses that people have to figure out how to afford, how to get approved. I really feel like if we could get people to look at them as investments instead that generate a return instead of an expense that's just I got to spend money on interactive floor plans or a new website or a marketing [00:23:00] program, whatever it might be.

Often you sit there and you look at and you go, you know, you don't have to sell very many homes to pay for some of this stuff. In fact, often it's like one incremental sale, you know, or two for the year really covers a whole lot of marketing. And now, again, I know there's a lot of other things that go into the whole thing. It's not like, oh, we bought this one thing and then we sold a house.

It's a little harder to connect the dots sometimes, but I admit that I get a little frustrated sometimes at what, you want me to spend that much money on a website? It's like, if you sell one more house because you've got a better website, now you sell one more a month, you're getting all kinds of ROI on this type of thing. so help me out, Jake. How do I get that message across to, to the world of marketers out there a little better?

Jake Kaplan: Yeah. I mean, I think it's also the unrealized cost. Because if you have a website that people absolutely love and it's easy to navigate and they're able to almost convert themselves on it, then it's taking up less overhead and [00:24:00] salaries. And people, instead of trying to sell the company, they're then getting more involved with the buyer and getting to know them more and creating a deeper connection with them to make that experience even better. I totally agree.

In addition to those digital floor plans, we're also redoing all of our renderings, which we have renderings, It may not make sense financially to invest in redoing what we've got, but with technology moving forward as quickly as it is, I want to make sure that we're ahead of the curve, and I want to make sure that we're representing our product in the best possible way, which is why we're going to be redoing all of our renderings for this new experience so that people can see and feel that we're different. We're different than other builders in our market.

Greg Bray: Kevin, have you run into the same issue that I was describing where people don't quite see the return or the opportunity of just selling one more house to pay for this stuff?

Kevin Weitzel: Yeah, you know, there's a lot of metrics that a lot of builders fail to look at or [00:25:00] don't even know how to look at. There's simple stuff like time on page. If I put X on my website, how much does it increase? Does it increase the time on page? Because there's tons of data that supports that the longer somebody spends on your website, the greater chance you have that converting to a sale or moving along the pathway.

We do get information sometimes from our clients, putting it in perspective, like the interactive floor plan, for example. You know, a builder can put an interactive floor plan on their website. However, they don't realize that they just bumped their two to four minutes of average time on their website. Now it's five to six minutes on their website. So, that's a minute to two minutes more just on average.

But on top of that, another thing they can look at, and this is more of the finance people that see this stuff is we've had builders, one here in Arizona, that saw a 40 percent increase and they divulge this information to us, you know, a year and a half later, but a 40 percent increase in structural option sales. So, when you can increase structural option sales, which there's no secret, that's where there's a margin that lives there, that's going to positively impact your [00:26:00] spreadsheet, your bottom line.

Greg Bray: Well, Jake, it's been a great conversation today. Really appreciate the time you spent with us. Do you have any last thoughts or piece of advice you wanted to leave with everybody today?

Jake Kaplan: Listen to your buyers and interact with them in a human way. So often we get caught up in the AI and the automations and how can we make things easier when we also just have to get back to the basics. How can we connect with people on a deeper level and bring them along the journey?

Greg Bray: Well, Jake if somebody wants to connect with you and get in touch what's the best way for them to reach out?

Jake Kaplan: Yeah. So, my email address is jake@garmanhomes.com. That's G A R M A N homes.com and then I am on Instagram. It's @buildlikeamillennial.

Greg Bray: All right. Awesome. Well, thanks again for being with us today, and thank you everybody for listening to The Home Builder Digital Marketing Podcast. I'm Greg Bray with Blue Tangerine.

Kevin Weitzel: And I'm Kevin Weitzel. So with OutHouse. Thank you. [00:27:00]