227 Customer-Focused Home Builder Teams - Craig Neal Jul 24 2024

Greg Bray: Hello everybody and welcome to today's episode of the Home Builder Digital Marketing Podcast. I'm Greg Bray with Blue Tangerine.

Kevin Weitzel: And I'm Kevin Weitzel with Outhouse.

Greg Bray: And we are excited today to have joining us Craig Neal. Craig is Area Sales Manager at Toll Brothers. Thanks for being with us today, Craig.

Craig Neal: Of course, happy to be here. Happy to be here.

Greg Bray: Well, Craig, let's start off and just help people get to know a little bit about you. Give us that quick overview and background about yourself.

Craig Neal: Yes. So, I am actually originally from Scotland. I spent about 10 or 12 years working on private [00:01:00] yachts, working back and forth, Mediterranean, Caribbean, and then I met my now lovely wife and I wasn't allowed to run off to sea anymore and had to join the real world and pay taxes and all that fun stuff.

So, we then ended up getting a land-based job and stumbled my way into new home construction through purchasing a new home, never knew about it prior. Fell in love with it. It's been great. I've got 14 years happily married. I've got three young kids. I've got a wee 11-year-old girl and six-and-a-half-year-old twins, Molly and Owen. So, full house, lots of fun, couple of little dogs as well. So, yes, big adventure in the new household every day.

Kevin Weitzel: All right. Normally, I go into this section here, but you almost blew it by taking a pretty interesting chunk about yourself right there with just being on those below-deck Mediterranean-type excursions. Besides that and the home building industry and family, those three are off the table, tell our listeners something interesting about yourself that they'll learn about on our podcast.

Craig Neal: Oh, fun fact, which I do like to share with everybody, it's just [00:02:00] I'm that self-defecating person, so nobody can then make fun of me, is that when I was 19, I used to be a cabaret singer called Craig International. I did covers of boy bands. So yeah, you want me to do a little Backstreet Boys number for you? I'm your guy.

Kevin Weitzel: That is insanely awesome.

Craig Neal: Yeah, and I will send you guys the picture afterward as well. It's pretty fantastic. Pretty fantastic.

Greg Bray: I don't think we've had one of those yet, Kevin.

Craig Neal: I wish I'd never had one of those looking back now, but it's there.

Greg Bray: If we could only, uh, hide our past from the internet, right?

Craig Neal: Yeah.

Greg Bray: Well, Craig, as you were searching around for that next career step, what was it about home building that kind of grabbed you and made you say, this is an industry I want to be a part of?

Craig Neal: So, I've always been really dedicated to service. Now, whatever that means in whatever category. And when I was on private yachts, I was heavy in service. It's just making sure that [00:03:00] you're keeping up to what the customers and everybody on the yacht is needing at any given time. And when I came to working on land, as I like to always call it, just having the opportunity to relate with a family and actually be able to, it sounds really cheesy, but I mean, given the American dream that it's such a true statement. I mean, being able to be there with customers.

Initially when I was purchasing a home, the sales agent still one of my best friends and I just loved spending time with him and he helped guide us through the process. And I had like a three-month-old baby at the time and just the ease and how that whole transaction was and how happy I was at the end of it and I was like I want to do this. Yachting such a niche market it doesn't really transfer into anything. It's not like a career that just go then now we're going to do this.

It's like I'm basically 32 years old, 33 years old, start from scratch. Like what do I want to do with my life? I was working as a project manager for an IT company. It was a terrible job. Work from home. Turns out the extroverts aren't big in that all day work from home. I thought it was great, but I was at Walmart every [00:04:00] lunchtime talking to the greeter just to have someone to chat to.

But yeah, just being able to meet those people, remember how happy I felt, and then be able to provide that to other people was just such a fulfilling thought of what my career could be. And then the financial side as well was fantastic. I mean, speaking with him, he was very candid with me and the opportunities. You've got to make some good money and provide for your family. It was obviously a huge bonus as well. But really just being able to provide families and people a home to live in, somewhere to call home was really my biggest driver.

Greg Bray: I mean, that's a great reminder of how special this industry really is.

Kevin Weitzel: And let me ask one little side question too because this also can kind of shed a little light onto the background of how yachting doesn't transfer over. What was the smallest and large, I mean, are we talking about like 30-meter, a hundred-meter boats? I mean, how big were the boats that you were on?

Craig Neal: Yeah, so the first yacht I worked on was actually, it was about 120 feet, and it was actually Nicholas Cage's yacht. So, I've signed an NDA, but I'm pretty sure he's [00:05:00] not gonna be watching the podcast. So, I feel pretty good. Then my last yacht was a 200-foot yacht. That was a really good one. That was for John Henry who owns the Boston Red Sox. So, I was his first officer for about three years. So, that was an amazing, amazing position. Got to sit in Fenway Park in the owner's box and the dugout seats. Such a cool guy, really good family. So, but yeah, anywhere from that kind of 120 to 200 feet.

Kevin Weitzel: You know, it's funny you say that it doesn't transfer over, but how does it not transfer over? The fact that you have to listen intently to whatever people are asking for and deliver, because it really does come to, you don't have an option to not deliver. You pretty much have to deliver. In the homebuilding industry, don't you think that that kind of transfers over to where you have that leg up, the fact that you listen more intently than the average person?

Craig Neal: The skill set 100 percent transfers over from a resume standpoint when you're looking at hiring. I don't have a degree. The majority of people coming into any sort of position have degrees. I've never done it. I've tried twice and failed twice. It's fine. I'm okay with that. But yeah, just from trying to [00:06:00] get into any sort of industry and just purely relying on your customer service, your customer experience, your customer skills, it's hard to get in front of that interview panel for a position with just that. Once I'm there, it's usually good because I'm able to sell myself and basically just show them the experience that I've had across a multitude of different environments. It's obviously very beneficial. But yeah, so mainly just from a resume standpoint, I would say.

Greg Bray: And Kevin, how did those compare to the size of your boat?

Kevin Weitzel: Well, we had a San Juan 21. So, we had a 21-footer that we used to cruise around in Lake Michigan. The problem was, is that when I got to just before puberty, my ear, inner ear did a weird change to where I got violently ill anytime I got in any kind of bouncy water. Ours was definitely not a yacht. It was just a 21-foot cabin cruising, sailing boat. But no, honestly, I would live on a boat if I didn't get violently ill being on [00:07:00] water.

Craig Neal: I did for a long time. One of my funny stories just to kind of digress a little bit. On the yacht, we used to have a laundry bag and I'd finish work every day and I'd put all my clothes in the laundry bag and I'd throw it down the stairs and the stewardesses would clean it.

And then I'd come back the next morning and all my clothes were like, washed, ironed, hung up in my closet. And I remember when I got married, I said to my wife, I was like, where's the magic laundry bag? It was a very short-lived marriage almost, from that point. She set clear expectations and said, there is no laundry bag in this home, and we moved on.

Kevin Weitzel: You know, speaking of marriage, and you're a father as well, is it easier or harder to separate the two? Like your leadership that you have in your job in the home building side versus the leadership you have with your children in your home?

Craig Neal: I don't separate at all from a leadership standpoint. So, something I talk about all the time is how that portion of my life is so transferable. So, anything I teach or talk on or I'm motivated about, you can replace sales [00:08:00] consultant with child, with a spouse, with family member because it's all just about respect and hearing people and meeting them on their level and listening to understand. I mean, it's just such a common phrase and it's so powerful, and it's just being able to do that.

I mean my brand is work-life balance. I mean that's kind of like my thing. That's what I'm really kind of striving to focus on and get out there is to help people do that. But people always get confused in thinking that work-life balance is 50/50 and it's not. It's more just about intentionality, it's being present where you are, whether it's work or at home. It's okay to transfer work things into home life if it's positive, it's not if it's negative. So again, it's finding the best from both aspects and combining them.

I just think about my children. I mean, they tell me how it is like they don't lie. I mean, they'll tell me the truth and sometimes that's what needs to happen at work. I mean, you can take that just complete candid [00:09:00] truth that a child would give and give it to your employees. As long as, again, it's the child's not saying it to harm you, they're just telling the truth. And as long as you have that same mindset when you're saying things to employees or co-workers, I think it's huge.

Greg Bray: Craig, before we get too far down the road, let's just make sure everybody's familiar with Toll Brothers. I know it's a well-known brand and builder, but tell us just a little bit about the kind of homes you guys do, the areas you serve, and the type of buyers you're working with.

Craig Neal: Yeah, so Toll Brothers, it's been fantastic. So, I actually left my last position. It was a bit of a rough one and I was deciding I was going to run towards something and not away from something. And I spent a lot of time looking at lots of different companies and the various different positions. And ultimately, after I met with the people at Toll, it was just, it was a no-brainer. It was just absolutely amazing. Every single person I spoke to, it was a conversation, it wasn't an interview.

And they're just so driven by the culture and the customer. You can't hide that. I mean, I've been with [00:10:00] companies that they'll say it's the customer first until it's not. They'll say it's all about creating a good experience, but not if it's the detriment to margin. This is the polar opposite here. It's just fantastic.

They're classed as the luxury home builder is their branding. They build some amazing homes and product all over the country. They've now started dipping into again to be able to provide more of those homes to more people by going into townhomes and some more product along those lines and some smaller single-family homes and allowing more people to experience the Toll brand. It's just really a luxury product.

The people are amazing. There's people here that have been here 24, 25 years, and you just don't see that in companies. You can't fake tenure. People don't stay somewhere they don't love being. When you get into these rooms and these leadership groups that I'm in, you see people that are like five years in and they're the newbies. That's just not heard of across the industry.

So, it's just a fantastic company. Again, I couldn't be happier to be here. And they're in so many markets and having the referrals of other people. And I owned the [00:11:00] home in Arizona. I owned a home in California. I would never buy anything other than Toll. So, it's been really cool to hear. It's certainly a very enjoyable place to work.

Greg Bray: So, take us a little deeper into that customer focus at Toll. What is it that really drives that or exhibits that focus that you're talking about that you think is different and unusual? What did they do internally to help everybody kind of understand how do we approach a customer, how do we take care of that customer?

Craig Neal: So, they truly care about the experience, and that means everything from the start to the finish. So, we have a community planning department. Most of the companies I've worked at there's been a sales manager, vice president of sales, whatever it is, and they do everything. They do everything to do with starting a model, starting a community, hiring, all that sort of stuff.

We have like a separate community planning and their sole focus is setting up model parks, making sure the homes look fantastic, from the small weeds in the lawn to like the big outdoor patios and everything, but making sure that every single [00:12:00] part of that community Is show ready for the customers. Because ultimately it's such a hard decision for customers and where they purchase, so we want to make it as easy as possible for them by saying like this is truly what you're buying.

We do weekly buyer calls. And I used to think that this was something that everybody does, but it's really not. So, which still just going to blow my mind. But every single week we do weekly buyer calls. We hold the teams accountable to it through Salesforce. So, it documents when those barcodes were made and if they weren't made, why not? Because again, we want the customers to have those interactions and build that rapport with each other.

We have HCI checks, which is basically going through the homes and making sure that all the items are complete. Because again, we don't want customers to be coming into an unfinished home or trying to rush somebody in. It's making sure that the homes are complete when they move in. These all sound like very basic common sense things that you would think that everybody does, but I mean, I've been in a lot of builders and it's not.

So again, we have different levels and we have sales consultants, [00:13:00] associates, and assistants so that we've always make sure that we're staffed to greet people as they come in so they're not just standing, waiting to speak to somebody if it's busy. So, just across the board, and then we give our Tiffany gifts. We are that luxury beholder, so we have Tiffany gifts that we give, certainly in our market and most of the markets, Tiffany gifts that we give to buyers when they close.

Kevin Weitzel: Wait a minute. You mean your buyers all get a date with Tiffany? The singer of the eighties, I think We're Alone Now, singer?

Craig Neal: That's right. Every single one.

Kevin Weitzel: I'm doing it. I'm buying a home.

Greg Bray: [00:14:00] Hey, everybody. This is Greg from Blue Tangerine. And I just wanted to personally invite you to join Kevin and me at the upcoming Home Builder Digital Marketing Summit. It's going to be October 23rd and 24th in Raleigh, North Carolina. You do not want to miss this. We're going to have marketing education. We're going to have online sales counselor education. We're going to have networking, round table discussions, and of course, a whole lot of fun. So, make sure you get registered today and join us. You can get all the details at buildermarketingsummit.com. Can't wait to see you there.

So Craig, when you talk about this focus on the customer and you think about, all right, you've got marketing, you've got sales, you've got production and everything that goes into all of this, who's responsible for this focus on the customer? Is it one group that kind of takes the lead? Where does that responsibility live?

Craig Neal: It's everywhere. It's everywhere. So, it's the accountability to each other and having the professional integrity to make sure that you're holding everybody accountable to the same standards. So, when you're at Toll, you're buying into the fact that we are going to provide this exceptional customer service.

So, if at any point, any part of the wheel is not working, it will be corrected. We will bring it to each other's attention that, hey, you know what, you could have done this. We could have done that. We should have done that. And it's really good because it's such a safe place because truly everybody's aim is to provide that experience. So, [00:15:00] we all will take that candid feedback and make sure we're improving on it and pivoting to make sure we're always constantly getting that kind of one percent better every day.

I mean, that's just such a big focus on my division president, Ryan Sweat. So, he's key to sales the Charlotte division and how we're driving. Surveys are so important. And again, a lot of places these surveys are just about making sure you get an average number. But I mean, how many people truly take the time to look at the surveys and use it? Call the customer, dig deeper, find out more. How could we have done better? That's what it's really about. That's why we want the customers' feedback. It's respecting their feedback and acting on it if we need to, to maybe not improve their experience, unfortunately, if there was a bad one, but it's helping the next people. It's just constantly trying to get better and improving on areas that we may have fallen down in.

Greg Bray: How often are you seeking that feedback from a given customer? Is this one time after they've moved in and they're done or is this all throughout the process?

Craig Neal: Yeah, all throughout the process. So, we [00:16:00] have four or five surveys throughout and it just allows us time to course correct. I always think, again in my yachting terms, if you leave New York and you need to be going 120 degrees to get across to Britain or whatever, and then you go 121 and you don't adjust it for 400 miles, you're in the south of Africa. I mean, if you adjust it every hour, if you keep changing it, you'll make sure you get to Britain.

If you leave something too long without correcting it is sometimes just too far off course to get back. So, just having those constant touch points through the process and seeking reassurances from the buyer that we are providing that experience, and we are living up to what we're meant to be doing and what expectations we've set with them consistently through throughout the process just finds it's really allowed us to provide that much higher customer experience.

Greg Bray: So, it sounds like you guys are very customer-focused, reaching out and talking to them. What are some ways that you are using some digital tools to kind of [00:17:00] engage with these customers and help them through that process? Any specific activities there on the digital side to help?

Craig Neal: Yeah, so we use BombBomb, which is great. So, I think it's so important to have a video connection with buyers. So, it's very easy to send an email or a text message, and they're good. I mean, you still get information delivered to the customer, which is better than nothing. But being able to be on-site with a BombBomb video and saying, Hey, your windows just got delivered. Look, boom, done set. I mean, that's it.

So many people try and think it's got to be this whole production and it's got to be perfect, and they've got to send this 30 seconds, you know what I mean? Like Instagram-ready videos to customers. And it's like, no, I mean, it's just them seeing your face, they connect with you as a person. That's a good one, I think, that we use, which is, has been very good.

And then, being on-site, we have iPads, all the consultants have iPads as well, just to allow them that easier access if we're doing registrations to be able to put in their iPads. And again, just from security as well, not having their personal information lying around. It's a shame that we've got to the [00:18:00] point that this is so important, but I mean, it really is, unfortunately, with everything that's happening out there. But yeah, that's another thing that we try and provide to the customers is giving them that ability to register and connect with us on the iPads.

And then, just online, I honestly don't know what the program is we use, but we've been able to have live updates on our websites with market homes. And they can click on the lot number and a lot pops up with the images and everything. And Anewgo as well is one of the ones we use, so it is good.

I mean, I think everything's moving towards that way, and we have to understand that the majority of people have done their research online digitally before coming in the model home. I mean, that is just where we're at now. And if consultants in the model homes are not asking, so you been on our website? What did you see on there? I mean, they're just not doing themselves any favors because everybody is. Everybody's doing it.

Greg Bray: Do you find that your sales team is embracing these technologies or that they're a little resistant? You mentioned some folks that have been here for 20-plus [00:19:00] years. They've done it a certain way for a long time and now technology is changing so rapidly and new tools are always coming up and you have to kind of experiment and try things. Are they willing to try things or are they kind of, this is the Toll way and this is how we do it, and it's worked for so long.

Craig Neal: That's not really the way, it's not really the toll way or the highway. We're providing the tools to the consultants. And of course, there's some things that we have to as a company, our business want people to use, but the things like BombBomb, that's not something that if you don't have five BombBomb videos every month, that's a markup.

It's like we're providing you these things. There's some consultants that they have been here for a very long time and they're towards the end of their career and does it serve the customer the best to have them use these? Probably not, because they're just going to be so unnatural using it. They're so good at what they do and how they do it, that works for them.

But as you're looking at certainly younger generations coming through, or people that have a long span of their career ahead of them, it's just tools. It's finding out how [00:20:00] they understand how it helps them. You have to get them to buy into it before it's going to really be any benefit to anybody. So, it's being able to show them the value and show them how it can improve the experience for the customer, but also ultimately their sales numbers. I mean, how can this help them? How can doing this make them more money?

I mean, that's where most salespeople are. If you can find that value proposition and along with obviously, I'd say the majority of salespeople as well, like how I started are all about the customer experience and being involved with customers. So, how does this help do customer experience and make me more money? So, it's finding that value for them to then do it. So, that's my job. That's my job to do that, to use it with them and experiment and see who it works for, who it doesn't, how you can pivot and use it in a different way, potentially.

So, certainly for me, and this goes back to my yachting days, I mean, if there's a better way to do something, I want to know, like, I'm not proud. Like, I can suggest and say, this is how we want you to do it. I was like, well, okay, well, [00:21:00] how about this way? If it worked, yeah, 100%, let's do it this way. That's a much better idea. So, I like to give an idea of why we're doing something and what to do, but then also with that kind of open forum of, but if you have a better way to do it, please let me know.

Greg Bray: As you ponder adding people to your team and going through that recruiting and interview process, and you want someone who's going to share this focus on the customer and be able to communicate and care, what are some of the ways that you try to find those kinds of people and dig in to see if they really are going to be a good fit?

Craig Neal: Referrals are obviously key from an employee standpoint. If you're able to get people sitting in front of you for open positions that already know people and trust people that are in the organization, it's huge because that's a big hurdle. You've already hired the employees. You trust them. They are there for a reason, and they're still there for a reason. So, most people share friendships with like-minded people. That's a huge portion of the first part.

And [00:22:00] secondly, it's just the interview process and the questions you ask. It's really digging into them as a person and their integrity and what their culture is. The experience, to me, it has never really mattered. You can get somebody that's never sold a home before or never even heard of a new construction, it'd be a way better fit than somebody that's got 15 years experience depending on what their culture and their behaviors and how they act in interviews are.

So, it's all about finding out about the person. You can coach the skills. But having that drive, having that belief. You can tell, I mean, you can tell if somebody truly cares. Chad Sanschagrin of is kind of a life coach and he always says your energy doesn't lie. He always says you always want to leave the room with more energy in the room than when you came in. So, you want to make sure that you're an energy giver and not an energy taker awayer. I know that's not the right verbiage for it. In Scotland, that's what we say. Let's just go with that. But it really is the energy they have in the room there and how they answer some of the [00:23:00] questions just is key.

Once we get through some initial stages, I like to send them into the field and meet the sales agents and meet other people and get their feedback on them and have the agents take them for lunch and sit down and just pick their brain and then get their feedback. Because ultimately, it's the team it's not who I'm hiring or who my boss is hiring, it's who the team is hiring because that's what we are, a big family. So, buy-in from everybody.

Greg Bray: And Chad is definitely an energy giver. I will say that.

Craig Neal: He sure is. I did my IBS talk with him this year, and I was super happy to be on stage with him, but then I was like super nervous because I had like, I've got all my structure and my plan, and then Chad's like, oh yes, go this way, and I was like, okay great, but I've only prepared for this way.

Kevin Weitzel: He hasn't forced you into running like he does with so many people, has he?

Craig Neal: Not to the extent most people are. I'm trying to, but it's a high bar. It is a high bar.

Kevin Weitzel: I'm a firm believer that he's got a little cult going on with this whole running thing. [00:24:00] It's like forcing people, if you do not run, you will be a failure. You know, it's, I don't know where it's coming from, but it's something crazy.

Craig Neal: No, he's not that way at all. He's very passionate in his running and his passion ultimately drives other people to want to do something that, I mean, if you see somebody that passionate about something, I want some of that. I want some of that passion. I just wish the passion wasn't running because it's like, Oh man, my knees. I'm not 25 anymore. So, it's like, can the passion be something like watching movies, like that would be great.

Kevin Weitzel: I mean, I look at people like you got Meredith, you've got Chris Hartley, you've got Ingrid, they're all running now. And it's almost like they're like, I must run. I must run. Chad says run. You know, it's like dude, what planet are these people on now?

Craig Neal: It's all a mindset thing. So, it's pushing yourself to do things that you don't ever think you could do. You look at Meredith and the story with Meredith, first thing she ran with Chad, it was a three-mile run they were going on. So, they ran the three miles, except he [00:25:00] hadn't told her it was three miles out, three miles back. So, her first big run of three miles ended up being six miles. But again, it's then like, she could do it. You never think she could do it. And then she did it and then look where she's at now. So that's the same with anything in life. Just push yourself.

Greg Bray: Great insights. We appreciate you sharing some of your experiences. As we kind of finish up, any last thoughts or words of advice on how to really get that customer focus if somebody's struggling to get their team to really engage there?

Craig Neal: Yeah, I mean, I think really it's just all comes back to being a team. That's really what it is. I mean, it's having one belief and following it as a team. You can't fake it. You've got to truly believe in it. And again, so it may not be for everybody. You might just not have that desire, and you might be a fantastic salesperson, but customer service isn't really something that's a huge issue for you. That just doesn't work here for sure.

But it's having everybody support each other, being vulnerable with each other, and understanding how you can [00:26:00] improve. Asking how you can improve, but also being vulnerable with the customers as well. If you make a mistake, tell the customer and say, Hey, look, I'm really sorry, but I should not have said that, or we did this. We should not have done that, but then it's correcting. It's okay to make mistakes. It's also okay to correct those mistakes as well, and that's across the board, whether it's with your family, with your children, with your work.

Kevin Weitzel: Alright. He gave you the easy lift and run. I'm going to go with a rapid-fire for you. You ready for a rapid-fire?

Craig Neal: Yep.

Kevin Weitzel: Haggis, yes or no?

Craig Neal: Yes.

Kevin Weitzel: Best Mike Myers character?

Craig Neal: Fat Bastard.

Kevin Weitzel: Okay. How many kilts do you own?

Craig Neal: Just one.

Kevin Weitzel: Just one? And then last but not least, the most famous person you ever met on your yachting experience?

Craig Neal: Oh, goodness. I shook hands with the Prince of Monaco and chatted to the Prince of Monaco for about 20 minutes at the Monaco Grand Prix.

Kevin Weitzel: And at the Grand Prix. Come on!

Craig Neal: Yep.

Kevin Weitzel: Craig, you are an outstanding individual. I have enjoyed meeting you, not only back in your good old days, but I [00:27:00] mean, just recently, uh, we met again at IBS. You're an outstanding individual. You practice what you preach. I'm a firm believer in sending more energy than you take. So, thank you for being on here with Greg and I.

Craig Neal: Thank you so much for having me. It's been a pleasure. Love talking to you guys.

Greg Bray: Craig, if somebody wants to reach out and connect, what's the best way for them to get in touch with you?

Craig Neal: LinkedIn. LinkedIn. Yeah. I'm really trying to get more content out there and I'm just really, really trying to push it's okay to have a job and it's okay to be at home. You can have both. You don't have to sacrifice.

Greg Bray: Well, thanks again for sharing with us today. And thank you everybody for listening to The Home Builder Digital Marketing Podcast. I'm Greg Bray with Blue Tangerine.

Kevin Weitzel: And I'm Kevin Weitzel with OutHouse. Thank you. [00:28:00]