211 Expanding Social Media Marketing - Bridget Cramer Apr 3 2024

Greg Bray: [00:00:00] Hello everybody, and welcome to today's episode of The Home Builder Digital Marketing Podcast. I'm Greg Bray with Blue Tangerine.

Kevin Weitzel: And I'm Kevin Wietzel with OutHouse.

Greg Bray: And we are excited today to welcome Bridget Cramer. Bridget is the Director of Marketing at Lindus Construction. Welcome, Bridget. Thanks for being with us today.

Bridget Cramer: Thanks so much for having me. I'm excited for our conversation.

Greg Bray: Well Bridget, let's start off by just helping people get to know you a little bit. Give us that quick background and overview about some of the things you've been doing.

Bridget Cramer: Absolutely. So, again, Bridget Cramer, I'm the Director of Marketing for Lindus Construction. I've been with the [00:01:00] company now for 12 years. I've had two Forty Under 40 awards from both Professional Remodeler Magazine and Professional Builder Magazine. I'm a former adjunct professor for a local technical college, and I've been on a few different industry podcasts and have had the ability to host roundtable conversations at national contractor conferences.

And in my spare time, when I am not sleeping, I also have a side business consulting for small businesses and help them with like social media and best business practices. So, never a dull moment in my world. I love every second of it.

Kevin Weitzel: What do you do? You like sleep two hours a day or one?

Bridget Cramer: Sometimes one, but you mentioned that you're in the coffee train side of things, so I might have to drink more of that.

Kevin Weitzel: Well, before we dive any more into that, let's really unpack one personal aspect about you that our listeners will learn that has nothing to do with the home building industry, nothing to do with remodeling, nothing to do with work, something about you. What do we have?

Bridget Cramer: Got it. So, I'm the proud dog mama of a 5-pound Maltese Chihuahua named Kenzie, and she is 14. [00:02:00] She's my sidekick. I work from home and she's always in the office grinning about how well she's sleeping when she's dreaming, so.

Kevin Weitzel: You know what they call Chihuahuas in Gilbert, Arizona?

Bridget Cramer: I do not.

Kevin Weitzel: Chihuahuas. And when I say Gilbert, I mean my house. I call them Chihuahuas. Tiny little dogs. They're itty bitty little. You say five pounds?

Bridget Cramer: Five pounds, yep, but I mean, she's got that big dog personality. So, she's my little buddy. She's my sidekick. She's the best.

Greg Bray: Bridget, you mentioned being an adjunct professor. Tell us a little more about that experience.

Bridget Cramer: Sure. So, over the COVID years, one of the local technical colleges wanted to do more online sessions with small businesses and teach them best practices about social media and website management and just various other topics. So, I had the privilege of doing that for a couple of years, and just really helping educate small business owners that probably couldn't afford to hire a marketing person full-time but wanted to learn best practices. So, it was really a lot of fun and I got to meet a lot of good people, and I even got to interact with some of the local nonprofit organizations and host seminars to help those business [00:03:00] owners as well.

Kevin Weitzel: Can we give a shout-out to the school or?

Bridget Cramer: Yeah, absolutely. It's Chippewa Valley Technical College.

Kevin Weitzel: Where is that?

Bridget Cramer: It is a branch of Tech Colleges throughout Western Wisconsin.

Kevin Weitzel: Oh, okay.

Bridget Cramer: Yeah.

Greg Bray: Well, that's pretty cool to be able to share with people like that and help them move their businesses forward. I'm sure that's pretty rewarding. Tell us Bridget a little more about how you came to be involved in the construction remodeling industry and what attracted you to working in this type of business.

Bridget Cramer: Sure. So, in my previous career, right after college, I worked in the newspaper industry for five years. I have a journalism minor and a marketing degree, a marketing major. So, newspaper was a great place to start. I was in ad sales, so I got to work with a lot of different businesses and help them with their digital and their print ads. One thing that was missing for me was that they didn't necessarily allow me to be a whole part of their entire marketing mix. So, when I wanted to make my next career move, I was looking for a company that could allow me to help control all [00:04:00] aspects of their marketing and all aspects of their success.

So, Lindus Construction is family-owned and operated. So, when I saw an advertisement for them, I jumped at the chance to work for that type of a company. I have a lot of family members that have their own companies too. So, working for a small family business and they were small at the time, they've definitely grown since then, was really exciting and really interesting to me. So, it's been a great transition. I've loved every second of the family I work with and the people I work for.

Kevin Weitzel: So, they've grown under your tenure. Now, does that mean that you can walk into the meetings and say, you're welcome? Do you do that? Because it is the marketing effect that actually does create that. And obviously customer service and other things that fall into place, but I mean, in all reality, they really do have you to thank for a lot of that upward, you know, business cycle, correct?

Bridget Cramer: I think, yeah, we've grown exponentially in the last few years, and I think it's a testament to the quality of workmanship that we do, and also our commitment to, you know, being good to our employees and just having good marketing out there. So, it's kind of a combination of everything. It's been a really exciting journey to watch the company continue to flourish and grow, [00:05:00] especially now that they're in the second generation of ownership.

You don't see that a lot where they can be successful, but the Lindus' sons really had strong parental figures that really instilled knowledge in them and mentored them along the way. So, that's been really exciting to watch now with the second generation of ownership.

Kevin Weitzel: So we talked to a lot of home builders that are, you know, regional or small, they fit a certain market. On the remodeler side, you have a whole different batch of clients that you're going after, and it's usually just consumer-direct. So, what market are you actually serving? Are you serving like the St. Paul greater area or beyond? What is your range of reach for Lindus?

Bridget Cramer: Sure. Yep. So, our footprint is Western Wisconsin and then the entire Twin Cities Metro. So, we offer a variety of services from remodeling to decking, siding, windows, gutters. So, we cover a pretty large service area with a large portfolio of products.

Kevin Weitzel: Now, notice I said, St. Paul, I didn't say the other city. So, you guys actually stepped foot into that other state then, eh?

Bridget Cramer: We do. Yep. We're in Minneapolis too. It's our biggest actually city that we [00:06:00] serve just, you know, based on population and based on the need of the homeowners there.

Greg Bray: So, Bridget, at Lindus, what is your kind of sweet spot, bread and butter service, and target audience that you're trying to reach with your marketing?

Bridget Cramer: Sure. So, our top three products are gutters, windows, and roofing. And then, the homeowners that kind of tend to be our bread and butter are a little bit more affluent and see value in the products that were installing in their homes. They appreciate our lifetime workmanship guarantee and the stellar warranties that we offer with the products that we install. They know that most times this is the last roof they're ever going to be putting on their house or gutters that will last a lifetime. They're very invested in their homes and want the project done right the first time by people that care and back up their workmanship and the products.

Greg Bray: Wouldn't it be better for your business if you could do a new roof every five years?

Bridget Cramer: You know, some contractors, that's the way they operate, and it's an interesting business model. But I think for us, because we offer so many different products if they get our gutters, they usually find us for their window project or for their siding project, or for a kitchen remodel. So, [00:07:00] it's really great to watch that grow and to see a four or five time past customers just coming back to us for more work and then referring their friends and family to us as well.

Kevin Weitzel: You know, Bridget, I don't want to interrupt this, but something incredible just happened. Greg and I have been on this podcast for approximately four years now. Our minds are so melded now, and this could be painful for Greg, but our minds are so melded that we literally, we're going to ask the same question. I just stepped back when he continued to speak because I didn't want to step on what he was saying, but I was going to ask the same exact question. Greg, how serendipitous is that?

Greg Bray: I'm concerned.

Kevin Weitzel: It's scary. All right. Sorry for the interruption.

Greg Bray: Well, Bridget, I think you mentioned the social media aspect and I'd love to unpack that a little bit more because based on the kind of work you guys are doing and the referral nature that's probably such a critical part of your overall growth there. How do you leverage social media to help your customers tell their friends about the great experience that they've had working [00:08:00] with you guys so that you can, get in front of more prospective buyers?

Bridget Cramer: So, for us, it's been an evolution with social media and marketing. Facebook is always going to be our bread and butter just because of the audience that we see on Facebook. It's a little bit more older and affluent, but I don't necessarily spend a lot of advertising dollars on Facebook. And that's just because Facebook has taken away who you can market to. They've made it very hard to even market to a homeowner or even someone that lives in an area. So, it's not the effective platform it used to be.

But in terms of organic reach, I think it's been very effective. And for contractors too, we can be a little bit of a scary industry when people are thinking about who's coming into my home, and how much does this costs. Are they going to be scam artists? We really make a cognizant effort at Lindus Construction to showcase our installers and our employees. Every employee gets a birthday shout-out. We highlight anniversaries. So, again, we want to be the family-friendly contractor that you can feel comfortable calling for any of your needs.

We also do quite a bit on YouTube because a lot of [00:09:00] people use YouTube to kind of determine, could I really install my own windows? Could I really install my own gutters? And we have videos showing kind of step-by-step how the process works. And most people, once they see what's all entailed in that, just decide I'm going to hire a pro. These guys look like they know what they're doing. That's gotten us a lot of business as well.

And we do a lot on Pinterest too, because with Pinterest, you can direct people back to your website. So, that's been really advantageous from an SEO standpoint of things. We're on all major platforms. I don't do anything on Snapchat though, because again, the audience just really isn't there.

TikTok is a big buzzword within the industry, but I feel like a lot of people use TikTok just to buy impulse purchases of this cool, neat little toy, that's maybe $20, $30 versus a robust full window home improvement project. And again, the demographic just isn't there, so that'll probably change over time. And for right now, my biggest focus is probably going to be YouTube, Facebook, and Pinterest.

Kevin Weitzel: So, when you mentioned Facebook, you actually said something pretty interesting, that they've changed the [00:10:00] rules. It's almost like they're using AI algorithms and all the data spreadsheets that they have on everybody that's buying advertising to find out how to pinch you for more. That's kind of what they're doing. They move the goalposts and they say, Hey, they're leveraging this successfully, let's get more money out of them. Let's make it to where they have to spend more to get the same effect.

I've seen that left and right. I do like your take on TikTok and I 100 percent agree with you. I think that it is great for dancing with your kids. It's great for doing some sort of new prank. But I honestly do not see any relevance to expanding business market there. Maybe I'm shortsighted on that, but that's just how I see it too.

Bridget Cramer: I completely agree. We even have a couple of videos that have over a hundred thousand views and nothing has come from it from a sales standpoint of things. So, we know how to use it. It's just not going to translate into the sales, so.

Greg Bray: If a builder remodeler is out there and is not doing much on social media, put on your professor hat for a second, where do they even begin? What's your first step to start leveraging social media better? [00:11:00]

Bridget Cramer: Absolutely. And I have actually taught classes about social media for contractors. But I always say, it's better to do a few things well than to feel like you have to be on every single platform every single day. Some of these smaller contractors who are trying to install, sell, do social media. It's kind of like you have to really conserve your energy and be smart. So, if you're going to only do a few things on social media, I'd say Facebook just based on the demographic that lives there.

And then again, YouTube is really interesting because you can even just get your phone out now and film something that you're doing and put it out there just to kind of show the caliber of work you do, or before or after photos or, you know, customer testimonials. I think those are the two of the easiest wins for people that maybe are just kind of starting to get their feet wet with social media.

Greg Bray: How do you guys go about asking a customer for a testimonial that you want to post in a video format or something like that? Do you get special permission? Do you just kind of film it and everybody assumes it's going out? Or what are some of the steps you go through for that?

Bridget Cramer: Yep. So, we've done it a few different ways. You know, salespeople obviously can, you know, [00:12:00] film the homeowner and just, Hey, can you give us a shout-out about your project with us or your experience with us? That's a really organic, easy way to do that. Installers can absolutely do that as well. We've also had events. Like when we had our 40th-anniversary party a few years back, we actually had customers that would come and get interviewed. We've actively filmed them, asked them questions, and had a really great collection and portfolio of firsthand testimonials from our customer base. And that was a really cool 40th-anniversary kind of tribute to all the work that we've done.

Greg Bray: So, the secret is throw a party then you can get them to talk.

Bridget Cramer: With food trucks. We had a lot of food trucks at the party. It was amazing.

Greg Bray: All right. So, I'm going to assume that you don't have an infinite budget. All right, I'm just going to make that assumption, right? You have constraints. How do you decide where to focus? How do you measure what's working and when you need to allocate kind of in a different direction?

Bridget Cramer: Yeah, actually, we're kind of a strange beast at Lindus Construction. Our marketing costs are only 2%, which is kind of unheard [00:13:00] of in our industry, and it's kind of been that way for the last 5, 6 years. So, we've really made a cognizant effort of focusing on cost per lead, that's the metric that we use to measure everything by. So, if we see things that are working well, we definitely allocate more funds to that. We're not afraid to try new things.

It's really nice to work for a family-owned company where we can pivot and not have to have board meetings about making, you know, budget changes. So, definitely just keeping an eye on what's working, trying new things, and then just kind of continuing to evolve and change. And again, reaching out to other marketing contacts and just asking them, Hey, have you tried this? Have you worked with this company? What did you think? And just kind of keeping your options open and continuing to grow and explore new options.

Greg Bray: All right. Now you don't have to answer this question if you don't want to, but tell us about a social media campaign that you tried that totally bombed.

Kevin Weitzel: Oh. Bring it on, Bridget.

Bridget Cramer: Yep. Absolutely. It just happened. So, I was very much trying to give Facebook a chance because it has worked so well in the past and we really had a robust budget for them. But with all these different changes they made to who you can market [00:14:00] to, I just wasn't getting it by myself. And I'm like, is it me or is it Facebook?

So, I did the calls with Meta and they like walked me through exactly. I'm like, tell me exactly what needs to be in the video. Tell me exactly how long it should be. Like, tell me exactly the verbiage you're going to sit here on the phone with me while I make this campaign up. And it was like an hour-long process to set the campaign up and it was my worst-performing campaign ever. At that point I was like, all right, it's not me. It's a Meta Facebook problem.

Greg Bray: So, you were able to get that kind of support from them, though, to have somebody on the phone? That's interesting.

Bridget Cramer: That's been a newer thing that they allow now. It never used to be that way. It was kind of like figured out. But I think when they've changed all these different rules about who you can market to, they now are reaching out and trying to get people to advertise. Because I think, you know, like a Coca Cola doesn't matter who sees the ad because it's a universal product. But when we're Linda's construction that can only advertise to homeowners and a select geographic footprint, that really puts us at a disadvantage and it can be a complete waste of money.

Greg Bray: So, did they give you a refund?

Bridget Cramer: They did not. [00:15:00] I certainly asked though, and certainly shared my frustration with them, and then I got assigned a new rep who now wants to take money from me again. That's their business model.

Greg Bray: All right. Well, in fairness, then tell us about one of your home runs that just totally exceeded expectations.

Bridget Cramer: Absolutely. And I think organic posts are just some of the best posts out there, and especially when people really embrace your messaging and embrace what you're doing. So, for us, like we're right in the backyard of Minneapolis in terms of location. And during COVID, there was the rioting around the death of George Floyd. There was a lot of businesses that were very much concerned with getting broken into and had to board up their businesses just to keep safe.

We asked for employees to volunteer and we got as much plywood as we could and just went door to door in Minneapolis and like, Hey, we don't physically have a location here, but we do business here and we hurt with you and we hurt for you and we want to help you and support you in what has to be just one of the scariest times ever.

So, we took pictures of [00:16:00] that and just put it out there that we care and that we hurt for these businesses that are just terrified of what might happen. That really resonated with people and it just went viral. I think we had like over 100,000 views on that. But again, just showing that we care and that we're a member of the community and that we really, we're not just a business. We're a community member as well.

Greg Bray: That's fascinating too, that the ones that I've seen, you know, as I've talked to other people that do the best are where you're just being people, you're not being a salesperson, you're not out there pushing the call now, for whatever. While we still need to have those. We still need to have those, but the ones that really resonate with people or when they just see you as people. Would you agree with that?

Bridget Cramer: Absolutely. I think for us like our top product is gutters. Gutters are really boring. They just are.

Kevin Weitzel: Bridget, you keep saying this word gutter. I'm in Arizona. I don't even know what those things are. What are those? Just kidding. Just kidding.

Bridget Cramer: Just kidding.

So, rain gutters that attach to your soffit and fascia. Yes. So, that's our top product. So, it's not a glamorous, exciting project. But when you can show the people that are installing them and just show like some of these [00:17:00] installers that have been with the company for over 20 years, that they really do care about the home's landscaping and taking care of everything, and getting selfies with homeowners and just being proud of where they work and the people that they get to serve, that's where the storytelling is. So, as a journalism minor, having that ability to be a storyteller with social media is kind of my approach to it.

Kevin Weitzel: Do you guys offer, uh, gutter gardens? It sounds like I'm asking a stupid question, but in all reality, I've seen a lot of these, especially in the Midwest, where they take the downspouts and they turn them into supply to gardens to where literally whole gardens are fed by just downspout output.

Bridget Cramer: We haven't ventured into that, but I have seen it. It's a pretty cool concept.

Greg Bray: All right. Once again, Kevin is trademarking something new out of ideas on our podcast.

Kevin Weitzel: Does your yard lack a garden? Contact Linus Construction, where we can get you a gutter garden. Gutter gardens.

Greg Bray: Bridget, you mentioned that you guys run kind of lean on your budget. How have you found it to be when you need more and you have to go to the [00:18:00] person with the purse strings and kind of advocate for here's why we should try this new thing and invest some money in it? What tips would you give to a marketer who's trying to fight for a little more budget?

Bridget Cramer: Absolutely. And I'm very blessed to have a COO that is willing to try new things and doesn't penalize me if we tried it, it didn't work, we recognize it didn't work, and just moved on. So, I think pretty much having that attitude of having a short trial, but a long enough trial to be able to see if it actually did work. I think that's the biggest, most important thing. And again, if you can preface this by saying, I've done my research, I've talked to XYZ company or XYZ person that's used this successfully. Here's what they did. Let's at least give it a shot.

Greg Bray: So, what do you think is the next big thing that builders and remodelers should be looking to specifically in the social media since we've been kind of focusing there? What do you think is the thing that they should all start playing with or be paying attention to that's coming next?

Bridget Cramer: I think the big thing that's going to come next and I'm really excited for it, I think we're in the very much in the infancy stages [00:19:00] is how do we harness AI and social media. You know, like right now you can have chat GPT write your Facebook posts, or respond to online reviews. But what's next? I think we've barely scratched the surface on what's out there in terms of AI can now build images for you. Like, where does it end and how do we harness it in a responsible way that's reflective of who we are and the work that we're doing as well?

Greg Bray: Are you guys doing any experiments with AI on those things?

Bridget Cramer: So, I do, yeah. For me, because of the high volume of online reviews that we get, I definitely use AI to help me construct thoughtful responses to reviews. I sometimes use it to help me construct responses to emails that customers have, where it's like, this is the point I want to make, can you help me write this in a way that's friendly and responsive, and easily understood? So, I do dabble in that.

I have used AI to help with some of my social media postings. But again, AI sometimes slows you down because it's like version four or five or six is finally what actually hits the internet. Because AI can be so little and still doesn't have that human emotion side of things too. Or AI also is really notorious for a Facebook post that's literally a page long. And it's like, [00:20:00] that's too much information.

You only have like what, eight seconds to capture somebody's attention? So, that it can't be that long. So, it's interesting. And I think it's good to be current on it, but you can't rely on it solely and just expect that to do all the work for you. So, it's something I dabble in, but again, I don't think in its current configuration, it's responsible to just only relying on AI for that type of thing.

Greg Bray: It definitely is a tool that we are still learning how to use. I did hear a quote a while back that was kind of eye-opening for me. They said that today's AI is the worst it will ever be. It's only going to get better. However frustrated we get with it, remember, it's not going to get worse. It's just going to get better as we practice and learn, so.

Bridget Cramer: That's a really good point.

Greg Bray: Well, Bridget, we appreciate the time you spent with us today. When you think of how to stay current with what's going on, where are you looking for ideas or new ways to do things or experiments to try? What are some of your sources of inspiration?

Bridget Cramer: There's so many different ways to get inspiration, [00:21:00] especially in the home improvement sector. There's a lot of different conferences that are out there that you can attend and just listen to speakers and just gain information and come back from a conference with 10 ideas and then put it down like the best two or three that you want to implement right now.

I also think that LinkedIn for me has been a really successful tool because being able to follow the movers and shakers within the industry and kind of see what they're talking about, engage with them in respectful conversations about where the industry is heading. Those are all good things. I think your manufacturers can be a good source of information because they usually have insider information about what's coming down the pike and what you should be focusing on.

Again, I think having a really good digital agency is really important too. The company that does our SEM advertising, they're always pushing me to try new things and to think about things in a different way, and to keep repackaging and reformulating how we do stuff. So, I really appreciate being pushed by them to continue to evolve and grow.

Kevin Weitzel: You know, it's odd that you use the term mover and shaker that you like follows because that is my stage name on TikTok, mover and shaker. Just so you know.

Bridget Cramer: I dig it. I'm gonna have to check it [00:22:00] out after the call.

Greg Bray: I just had so many things I was about to say that I'm going to move on and not say so, Bridget, any last thoughts or words of advice you want to leave with our audience today?

Bridget Cramer: Absolutely. I think in this industry, if you are just remaining in place and not growing and not moving forward, you're not being stagnant, you're actually falling behind. Especially if your competitors are continuing to grow and evolve. So, it's really important just to keep educating yourself and stay on top of current trends.

And something else that's been really helpful for me too, is I kind of manage a younger team. Understand that not all the good ideas come from the top down. Your installers can have really good ideas and so can younger members of your team. So, take those ideas seriously and run with them. And maybe it's not perfect in its original state, but really listen to your team and really have an open door policy to have those conversations, so that you can continue to be the best possible marketer and the best possible company you can be.

Greg Bray: Great advice. Thank you so much for sharing with us [00:23:00] today. If somebody wants to reach out and get in touch with you, what's the best way for them to connect?

Bridget Cramer: Sure. So, I'm on LinkedIn and it's Bridget Cramer, Cramer's with a C. And then also my email address is Bridget.cramer@lindus, L I N D U S, co.com.

Greg Bray: Thank you everybody for listening today to The Home Builder Digital Marketing Podcast. I'm Greg Bray with Blue Tangerine.

Kevin Weitzel: And I'm Kevin Weitzel with OutHouse. Thank you.