201 Creating Solutions to Marketing Challenges - Christine Vangsness Jan 24 2024

Greg Bray: [00:00:00] Hello everybody, and welcome to today's episode of The Home Builder Digital Marketing Podcast. I'm Greg Bray with Blue Tangerine.

Kevin Weitzel: And I'm Kevin Weitzel with Zonda and Livabl.

Greg Bray: And we are excited today to have joining us on the show, Christine Vangsness. Christine is the Marketing Director at Dabbert Custom Homes. Welcome, Christine. Thanks for being with us today.

Christine Vangsness: Yes. Thank you guys so much for having me.

Greg Bray: Well, Christine, why don't we start out by just getting to know you a little bit? Tell us a little bit about yourself and some of the things you've been working on.

Christine Vangsness: Awesome. Well, we are up in Fargo, North Dakota. And if you ever have [00:01:00] met someone from Fargo, North Dakota, they will always leave an impression on you. Everywhere I go, they always say North Dakota, and it's such a conversation starter. And it's really fun because we are up in the upper Midwest and we are doing everything that everybody else is doing around the world.

I am with Dabbert Custom Homes and I've been with them for about eight months now, but I've been in the home building and real estate industry for over six and a half years. We have seen a lot of the same things as our region has seen. But before we get all into that the question was a little bit about myself.

So, I am a mother of two boys and they play hockey, thirteen and ten. So, I am on the go all the time. I'm really blessed to be in an industry where I can work from a lot of different places. I formerly was from South Dakota. So, I moved up north, and don't ask me why, because it's a lot colder. It's at least 20 degrees colder here in North Dakota than in South Dakota.

But I really had a passion for design. I wanted to be the one working on the projects and I [00:02:00] wanted to be the creator of them. Believe it or not, back in my day, as we like to say, I'm a lot older than people think, they didn't have anything called like graphic design or Photoshop in school that they taught us, and I didn't really know what it was called.

So, I found a community school up here in Minnesota, and I have an associate's degree in graphic design technology. My passion for the love of the industry and being a storyteller and a creator and really just that visionary has brought me to the marketing directing role that I'm in today. So, it's been very exciting, this path and journey that takes you through so many different avenues.

Kevin Weitzel: Before we jump into all that, we can't talk about the homebuilding industry, your job, or your kids. We want to know one factoid about you, something interesting about you that people will learn about on our podcast.

Christine Vangsness: Well, I have a couple, but the one thing that is really interesting I came from a ranch in South Dakota. So, I grew up in town, but I was raised on a ranch. You're looking[00:03:00] at an all-around rodeo gal, and I have belt buckles galore. I don't have trophies, belt buckles, lots of them. And I gotta say the boys love pulling them out left and right. I mean, every once in a while, I still get to go home and ride my dad's horse on the ranch. So, I always look forward to that.

Kevin Weitzel: Well, and then a follow-up since you've been in both North and South Dakota, which one's better?

Christine Vangsness: Well

Kevin Weitzel: Because I think the Dakotas, population-wise, they're kind of small states, so you can really just lump them into like mini Montana or something.

Christine Vangsness: Yeah, a lot of people do just lump us together. You're right.

Kevin Weitzel: Yeah. So, which one's better though?

Christine Vangsness: I have to say, I'm originally a South Dakota girl. I love the Black Hills and the Badlands out by Rapid City and Waldrug. I love the land out west. It's beautiful. I'm an outdoors girl. But in true fashion, I have to say, I do love the community of the Fargo-Moorhead area in North Dakota. I have [00:04:00] not been out west to the Medora area, which also has some of the Badlands in them. But I gotta say, Mount Rushmore, all of the like, historical, you know, I just stay with my roots in South Dakota.

Kevin Weitzel: I hear you.

Greg Bray: It's interesting that you said you're from South Dakota because I was going to ask you how hard of a recruiting job is it to get people to move to Fargo. But it sounds like it just depends on where you're coming from.

Christine Vangsness: Absolutely. And actually, up here in the Fargo-Moorhead metro area, we have a lot of universities. We have the NDSU Bison who make it to Frisco almost every year for football. And then we have a couple of different private colleges. We have MSUM. We have, I would say, over 10 different post-educational ways to go about between tech schools, community colleges, universities, and private schools.

So, we have a lot of migration to our metro area because another little fun fact is that the Red River is one of only a few rivers that actually flow north. [00:05:00] And so that connects Minnesota and North Dakota, which is the Fargo-Moorhead area. So, it's Moorhead, Minnesota, and Fargo, North Dakota, and there's a river that runs right between us. But we really act as sister cities, and when it comes down to it, we work together a lot, so.

Greg Bray: Well, I have learned some geography today, Kevin.

Kevin Weitzel: I didn't know there was only one river that flows north.

Christine Vangsness: No, there's a few, but this is the only one in the United States.

Kevin Weitzel: Wow.

Greg Bray: Yeah. The Nile in Egypt flows north.

Christine Vangsness: Yes. See, okay. So, I knew there's only like, I think one of four, maybe even there's less than that, but we are. So, it is fun fact.

Kevin Weitzel: Well, the Amazon twists around so much that it also eventually flows north, but yeah.

Greg Bray: Thank you for listening to the geographic river flowing podcast today, but. Well, Christine, how did, how did you kind of make the leap from graphic design and wanting to kind of be in marketing to get specifically into real estate and home building? What kind of pulled you into this industry?

Christine Vangsness: Well, you know what? I went from being the creator and the one behind the scenes, to really wanting more of that [00:06:00] storytelling and visionary aspect. So, I actually got into working with corporate retail. So, there was a corporate retail company called The Vanity. Their corporate office was here in Fargo-Moorhead. They had about 140 fleet stores and we were in 26 states.

I ended up taking a graphic design manager role where I was able to oversee different campaigns. Working with our merchandising crew, and all of our different fashion buyers, we really were able to work as a team to create these really compelling, fun campaigns that would live for three months at a time. And we were working so far in advance that we would get to go on photo shoots all over Beverly Hills, LA, Malibu, Puerto Rico because we really wanted to tell the story of that fashion line for that season.

And then I was actually recruited to go to work for Coldwater Creek and they have a brick-and-mortar store in the mall as well, and they had over 800 fleet stores. The sad thing about [00:07:00] certain industries, it took a turn. Corporate retail had a really big hit. And there were a lot of stores that went out of business and just couldn't compete with the Ecommerce side of things. Amazon got big. People were just ordering online. They quit going in and shopping in the malls and in the brick-and-mortar stores.

So, I took a turn and ended up finding a home builder. They were looking for a marketing director and, you know, I just took a leap of faith and said, I just really want an industry that's going to be here forever. And I got to tell you, working within, whether it's existing real estate, new home construction, developments, there's just so much, and there's always going to be a need for it. So, I kind of found my way and the sky's the limit since then.

Greg Bray: Well, tell us a little bit more about Dabbert Custom Homes, what demographic buyer you're trying to serve, and the geography that you guys work in.

Christine Vangsness: I love it because every time somebody says, what's your demographic? It has changed since the pandemic has hit. That has to be true in so many [00:08:00] different aspects with home builders and in pretty much most industries So, we are a single-family home builder and we build typically anywhere from 60 to 80 homes a year just depending. Post-pandemic actually we were building 80 to 90 homes a year. And we also have a rental property management company.

So, we build new homes and then we have a property management company that we rent them out as well. So, not only are we a home builder, we have rentals, and Don has expanded into development. So, he is a big developer here in our Fargo-Moorhead area. He develops different communities. We actually partner with a lot of our competitors and a lot of our industry partners as home builders, because we want those communities and those developments to be well-rounded with all types of homes for good old economic status. We want the availability to be there for everyone.

So, we have right [00:09:00] now, three different developments that have been underway and they are continuing to grow in different aspects. So, we pick our lots and we build on the lots and have model homes, and a lot of inventory that we want to display. But then we also partner with our builders and we want them to be building in those communities as well. So, there's a lot of growth within the walls of Dabbert Custom Homes.

And then the demographic piece, real quick, I know you did ask about that. Typically, it can be anywhere from, you know, single-family homes. So, we have, two-stories, ramblers, slab on grades, and we've been known for our three-level splits. So, typically they're very well-sized homes. We have a really great quality build, and with that comes a good quality expense, but the sky is the limits.

One thing that we're really looking to overcome is, you know, we want to be that next step builder. People have a great experience with us, we have a great process, but we really want to get out of the three-level split [00:10:00] realm and for us to be able to be known for those luxury home builds too. We can knock down walls. We can do just about anything, and we really want to take 2024 into that next step up into those home builds.

So, typically, depending on the market, the economy is so good here in Fargo Moorhead and it's very affordable, so we can really be anywhere from the age of 25 to 28 all the way to 65 where it's that next right size living if they don't want to have a no-step entry home, like a slab on grade. A lot of different regions call them ranch-style homes, but we call them ramblers. But right now we are seeing everyone come in. First-time home buyers, they're coming in and they are ready to sign the dots and start building their homes. So, we're seeing all ages from all walks of life. So, that is a very hard question these days, and I just feel like that's got to be hard for a lot of people. [00:11:00]

Greg Bray: You mentioned, Christine, that you've only been with the company less than a year now. What was it as a marketing director that said, gosh, this is a good opportunity to go switch over and work with Dabbert and be able to do something different or special? What attracted you to this opportunity with them?

Christine Vangsness: Well, again, just staying within the industry, and you get to know all of your builder partners. You know, a lot of us are friends and a lot of us know each other just from all the different association gatherings and chamber events, and just working together. I love that idea that Don has so many different entities under one roof that nobody really talks about.

I saw a great opportunity between the developments and the rental homes and just really taking that next step into a challenge for myself. You know, we all kind of get to a point where we say, you know what? What is that next move? Where can we go from here? We [00:12:00] just had some really great conversations and it just felt really natural and raw.

Greg Bray: So, what are the kinds of things that challenge you then with all those different businesses to try and market and grow and everything else? Does that get a little bit overwhelming to kind of be shifting gears? Because selling rentals is a little different than selling, you know, a custom home. So, what is it that helps kind of balance all that for you?

Christine Vangsness: And selling land. There's so many different entities and I love the word overwhelming. Marketing is a well-balanced diet. You have to have a little bit of everything, but we all know digital is our meat and potatoes. And then we still have our print and we still have direct mailing pieces. We have a little bit of everything that really creates a full circle. We can do that within all the different aspects.

We don't want to confuse anyone because Dabbert Custom Homes is very different than all of our developments, and we don't want anyone to think that they can't build in there. So, we try to keep those entities very separate. But [00:13:00] also, we can use it to our advantage on a lot of digital and Ecommerce pieces to say, hey, we can still have all those different targeted audiences in the same way.

So a lot of those audiences that have been built in our behind-the-scenes digital strategy that nobody really sees in the limelight. I can use those to our advantage for the developments for the rentals and for our custom homebuilders, but nobody really knows it because they're not seeing it, right?

And so, when I'm talking about building with Dabbert Custom Homes, I'm talking about the models that are in our developments, out in Cub Creek, out in Hampton Place. So, I am able to plug, organically, all of our developments that are up and coming and growing and changing and moving and ready for more homeowners and builders to come into. I can speak to that in my marketing with Dabbert Custom Homes in a very easy fashion that doesn't seem so over the top or pushy too. So, there's a lot of things behind the scenes that are really great [00:14:00] that we can use because digital just made it that much more easy for us.

Kevin Weitzel: So, in today's day and age, when people are traveling across the country to find their new home, you know, let's just say, I'm looking to come up there to buy a ranch, or I'm looking up there to find my next wife that speaks with an accent. Who knows what the reasoning could be? What tools are you using to attract people digitally versus waiting until they get to a model home?

Christine Vangsness: Right. And so, that's the nice piece to is I have a really strong search and display campaign that I've worked with the professionals. And I know a lot of people will go in and work on their own Google ads and set up their own campaigns. There are people who are the experts in this and I say I'm an expert in what I know what I want and what I need, but I can't be the expert in the thousand different pieces that come into marketing. So, really partnering with the right people, whether that's national companies or their local companies, to make sure that we are hitting those search criteria.

Honestly, I'm really glad you asked that, Kevin, because [00:15:00] we have a lot of people that move here. We talk a lot about Microsoft is one of the largest Microsoft buildings because all the accounting comes from there. We have Bobcat, Doosan. We have a huge Sanford Medical Center, and so we get a lot of traveling nurses. We get a lot of big business professionals and then plus you put agriculture on top of it.

There is a lot of money that comes in and out of the Fargo-Moorhead area, and it is always surprising of how many people do migrate and move here and then they transplant here and then they stay. And because of the community, they wanna raise their families. So, for us to get in front of them before they're even here, it's the online presence. It's having those agencies and those companies that are the experts in what they do best.

Because let's be real. We are experts in our own thing. And you know what? Let everybody else be an expert in theirs and have them work as hard as they can for us. And so, really the search and display is huge. And then, just having that organic content. So, you know, we do [00:16:00] know that organic content populates even more than anything paid that we can do.

So, the more that we can educate the consumers out there of the products that we have, the more our digital and our paid is going to help supplement what the organic is not reaching. And I'm a huge, huge component of crucial content. I know we were just talking about that, our digital center, the crucial content, but it is key, and it's a lot of work, honestly. So, you know, to be able to focus in on the things that matter to you is huge. And that's what I really try to do is to make sure that our campaigns that are running, are hitting the search criteria for our area in the Fargo-Moorhead for people that are looking and doing their research because a lot of people do the research before they make such a move.

Greg Bray: Christine, as you talked about working with experts because you know what you want, but you can't necessarily know how to execute every little piece of everything. Right? You got a lot going on. You know, I'm assuming that you don't have [00:17:00] 100 minions running around to do your bidding. How do you go about evaluating those partners? What are some of the things that you look for in a partner that helps you say, Oh, I want to work with them or not with these other folks?

Christine Vangsness: Absolutely. Well, I'm such an energy person that I love human connection. If I can build trust with somebody, they will earn my business. Because if I can have a real conversation, it's not a selling point, we can just hit it off and I build this trust with them. That is huge for me. But I do work with national companies and I've worked with national digital companies. I've worked on our search and displays.

Right now, I'm working with one of our partners over at OutHouse to work on our interactive floor plans because they're the experts in that. So, that is who I want to give my business to, and they've been nothing but phenomenal. Locally, I'm working with a digital company and that's all they do.

My biggest thing is, it's very [00:18:00] frustrating that I have eight other media partners that I am working with them in what they do best, TV, radio, print. But they all have a digital component because everybody seems to like, have a digital package and they can do all this and they can do all these things, but it's not their niche. It's not worth risking my company and my decisions on something that is not their niche. So, trust and leave it to the experts. And we all know who those experts are after talking to them for a little bit.

Greg Bray: It's interesting that you talk about though, actually going with multiple partners for all of these different segments or niches or tasks that you need done, whereas some people want to go with the one agency that says they can do it all and be able to deal with that.

So, obviously, when you go with multiple, you've got more management and overhead and some of those things to deal with of keeping it all straight and, you know, herding the cats, shall we say, to keep it [00:19:00] all moving forward versus having just one place to go. But it sounds like you're pretty confident that in today's world, it's really hard for one agency to know everything. Has that been your experience that people want to tell you they know everything when they really don't, or how have you kind of run into that?

Christine Vangsness: I just think I know there are some agencies that let's say they're media buying agencies and they'll help you keep all your ducks in a row, but then they're still outsourcing everything. I don't want to pay someone else to just outsource everything, right? So, I want to work with the people who are outsourcing because guess what? I want them to be reporting to me. I want to hear it from the horse's mouth. I want to have those relationships.

And I have monthly meetings with all of my partners to talk about all of the data, the analytics, the things that are coming through so we can make crucial company decisions. And you're right, sometimes it is like herding cats. And sometimes I do maybe just want to pull out a gray hair here and there and just laugh off the day we could say. What do you say? You laugh or you cry. I choose the [00:20:00] laugh. So, it can be a lot. But I guess to each is their own and there's no right or wrong way or reason for anyone.

It's just my experiences that I am not going to go with somebody who specializes in radio or TV, but then they say they can do digital when I know there's digital companies that have resources and tools that they maybe haven't even tapped into. And that's just my perspective. And yeah, it sometimes can create a little bit more work, but I want to have those key conversations and what I like to say, crucial conversations because I want to hear it from them, not a third party of what is working and not working because now's the time to make the decision.

Greg Bray: So, which parts have you found to be so important you want to have those in-house and that you try to hire and keep on your team versus being comfortable sharing with a partner?

Christine Vangsness: So, I do have a little bit of control all of the brand aspects. So, being a brand champion, talking about our company in the right way, those are all the things I keep in-house. A lot of the public [00:21:00] relations side of stuff, speaking, doing live interviews, creating the foundation of the designs of campaigns, we do keep all that in-house.

So, I want to do the video editing. I want to make sure that any of the promotions that are coming through we establish the look, the design, and the feel of it before we send it out to all of the partners. I do want to write the copy for all of our content and for some of our different, you know, radio campaigns. A lot of that we can do in-house, and then we just need the tools and the experts to get it out in front of the world.

Greg Bray: Kevin, what do you feel about working with all these different partners? Do you think it's better for one agency or do you think they should have a hundred different ones?

Kevin Weitzel: I think it depends on the agency. If the agency is competent on everything, sure. However, I'm a firm believer of go with the expert. Go with the best of the best when you can, every opportunity you can. That's my take.

Greg Bray: Christine, do you ever feel like agencies struggle to report their progress and kind of [00:22:00] keep you clear on what's working and what's not because they're worried about losing the business if something didn't go right or whatever? What kinds of ways do you hold them accountable?

Christine Vangsness: I think that's a great question because nobody wants to report bad news. I mean, I don't want to report bad news either. So, and that's the fine line. And actually, I just had this conversation with one of our digital strategists just last month. Things weren't running the way that they thought they were and they were honest and we have face-to-face or over Zoom calls.

One thing that people who work with me understand if you are going to be in a Zoom call, we will always have our cameras on or we will always meet at an office or a coffee shop because I need the face-to-face human connection. And I have really thrown out my persona to people who work with me that if you are honest and I trust you, it doesn't matter if something happened or it's not working.

But if I am not told the truth and we lose that trust and things should have been addressed [00:23:00] a lot earlier than they were, that is when, you know, I do hold them accountable, and what are we going to do about that, and how are we going to make that up? Because if we could have adjusted and shifted and pivoted when we needed to, things could be in a very different state than they are now.

So, again, those face-to-face conversations and meetings are crucial and they know every month they're going to get to talk to me. And it's not that they have to, they get to talk to me, right? I have found it is a little nerve-wracking for some people who are not used to that with agencies and they don't want to report. But after they understand how that's okay, but what are we going to do about it and what are your suggestions and where are we going to go from here, it really takes the ease off and they really start to look forward to these monthly conversations.

Because guess what? We get to catch up on life for a hot second, and then we really get down to business. And again, when you are a good person and you have good [00:24:00] energy and you just want to work together and have a team dynamic and environment, people are drawn to that.

Kevin Weitzel: People have to change their mindset, don't they, Christine? Because bad news isn't bad news, in my opinion. Bad news to me is pivot opportunity. It's just painting a picture where I have an opportunity to pivot and make something better.

Christine Vangsness: Absolutely. I 100 percent agree. And that's where that connection comes in. Don't be scared to talk about the hard thing because those are the things, guess what, we have to talk about to be better. So, I 100 percent agree.

Greg Bray: Marketing, at the end of the day, is about experimenting and trying things, which means that some of them will not work.

Christine Vangsness: And we can all attest that that's happened, right?

Greg Bray: Well, Christine, what are some of the places that you look for inspiration and new ideas and new things to try and experiment with? Where do you go for thoughts and ideas?

Christine Vangsness: Well, as a natural creative, our brains are always moving, right? Everything that comes around us. It's like a squirrel that we're always looking. But to really get [00:25:00] good insight, I really like to follow and make all the connections I can when I'm going to conferences. And those are the people that I follow and look to for inspiration. I reach out to them and ask them questions. What are you doing? What's changing in your world? And even bounce different ideas off of them.

Keep a close eye on your competition, you know, keep your friends close, but your enemies closer. This is the home building industry and that's just natural. But I've made a lot of friends, I don't even call them colleagues, throughout IBS and The Digital Marketing Summit I was just at back in October.

Kevin Weitzel: What? Wait, wait. Could you say that again? What was that? What was the last one? I didn't hear it.

Christine Vangsness: The Digital Marketing Summit.

Kevin Weitzel: Wow. That sounds like an amazing one.

Christine Vangsness: I have three people that I am staying connected with. You know, every other week we're checking in with each other. Those are the people who influence me and help me realize I am on the right path. Because I don't want to just do what everybody else is [00:26:00] doing in my area. I want to learn what other people are doing in other regions, and bring that back to my region, and figure out a way that it works for me.

So, those are the influences I really like to have. And of course, I love my fashion sense. I love a lot of different aspects about, you know, the creative world and marketing, and there's some things that you're like, that's a really good idea. It has nothing to do with home building, but we can make that work.

Greg Bray: Well, it's great to hear that you met some people at The Summit that you're able to stay in touch with. That's fabulous. Because that's really one of the things that we wanted to help make happen and facilitate.

Kevin Weitzel: I'm curious, are they regional people? Because obviously, you don't have a boatload of competitors in the Dakotas. Are we talking like Wyoming builders, Montana builders? Are we talking Denver builders?

Christine Vangsness: Yep. Some Denver builders and then, a couple of vendors to that we're just staying connected. I'm not even using them, but we're just staying in touch with each other on a relationship basis.

Greg Bray: Well, Christine, we appreciate the thoughts and ideas you've shared with us today. Do you have any last words of advice to leave with our [00:27:00] listeners before we wrap up?

Christine Vangsness: One thing that I've really learned and it can be a very hard generalization to say for marketing, but one thing I'm truly passionate about, my view on marketing is fix the problem, find the solution to a problem that you're facing in your industry. And right now, everyone's talking about interest rates. Everyone's talking about the home price escalation. It's been a game-changer. But if we take that scarcity away, and there is an abundance in this world to say. There's a ton of buying power right now. Interest rates are still good.

In 2006, I bought my first house at a 7 percent interest rate and I thought we were golden because they were compared to 10 percent interest rates just a couple of years earlier. And so, we just really need to reeducate ourselves and our consumers. All these buyers are waiting, they're waiting for the interest rates to go down. But guess what happens [00:28:00] to our industry again when those interest rates go down? It becomes a saturated buyers market because everybody is looking to buy or build.

And now what? It becomes a seller's market and a homebuilder's market because home prices will go up. Because now you have competing offers. You know, you have the lack of inventory for existing real estate, but an abundance of buyers ready to buy. Good for us because then they can just come over and build, but it does shift the economy when people don't look at it that way. It is a huge, huge opportunity to be building right now, and interest rates are good.

We went round robin with the exec team here is that you know, a lot of people are talking about the interest rate and their monthly payments, so we wanted to fix that and create a solution. And are offering our homeowners that we will be the ones to buy down their interest rate, that we will offer them a three-to-one buy down as long as they're qualifying, as long as they're pre-approved. And [00:29:00] as long as their lender allows that type of financing, we will purchase that for them. That will save them tens of thousands of dollars in the next four years. That is the biggest thing. Find the problem and just create a solution. The biggest thing in marketing right now.

Greg Bray: Love it. Find the solution.

Christine Vangsness: There's so much education that can be talked about and we just have to shift our mind frames. And like you said, Kevin, we have to shift the mindset. Home building and real estate, it's going to be here forever, and we are probably in our lifetime, not going to see those rates again. So, right now is the best time because pretty soon when those rates come down, it's going to be a game changer for the industry again.

Greg Bray: Well, Christine, again, thank you for being with us. What's the best way for someone to connect with you if they want to get in touch?

Christine Vangsness: Well, absolutely. You can find me on LinkedIn, Christine Vangsness. I'm on LinkedIn. I'm on Facebook. You can email me at [00:30:00] christine@dabberthomes.com. My door is always open to conversation and connection.

Greg Bray: Well, thank you everybody for listening today to The Home Builder Digital Marketing Podcast. I'm Greg Bray with Blue Tangerine.

Kevin Weitzel: And I'm Kevin Weitzel with Zonda and Livabl.